posted 01-05-2001 12:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by roman74:
Read a book that doesn't have funny little pictures in them, and maybe you will develop some "smarts", too!

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You are such a big jerk it isn't funny. You are the dumbest person to think he's smart that I've ever run across! AND, when one is stubborn to boot (as you are) there is very little chance you will develop the skills to increase your level of intelligence, since you are severely limiting your knowledge base.

It is common knowledge that one can increase their level of intelligence, the more one reads. Your quoting scientists and politicians out of context shows that what you HAVE read is not being well absorbed by you. You are probably still in shock from some incident that you won't share with us, NoMan. Hate to say it, but you are in dire need of either intensive prayer or shock treatment!

posted 01-05-2001 12:19 AM            

I am officially done responding to you until you can show me that you have sufficiently researched the dollar bill and the meaning of the word God as it is written on the dollar bill. I will state again that it is not a reference for supernatural claims or a claim for theism. Do some actual research for once, and not just looking in the back of comic books for new and amazing psuedoscientific discoveries.

posted 01-05-2001 12:30 AM            

Psichick, I controlled the pain and swelling caused by the broken bone by 1) meditating, focusing on my breathing, 2) identifying the pain, then analyzing the actual sensation as opposed to FEELING the pain, then 3) visualizing the point of the broken bone and visualizing the damage and inflamation as dark points in the break, then flooding it with mental white light. I had very minimal swelling and bruising, which did last for about a week or so, but I was walking within an hour of the break.

posted 01-06-2001 05:34 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Enigmagirl:
Satire, thanks for the compliment.

Psichick, I controlled the pain and swelling caused by the broken bone by 1) meditating, focusing on my breathing, 2) identifying the pain, then analyzing the actual sensation as opposed to FEELING the pain, then 3) visualizing the point of the broken bone and visualizing the damage and inflamation as dark points in the break, then flooding it with mental white light. I had very minimal swelling and bruising, which did last for about a week or so, but I was walking within an hour of the break.

An even more phenomenal story: I had a family friend, an elderly woman who I saw as a grandmother, who had a blood clot in her leg. By the time she got to the hospital her entire foot was dead, black and white with gangrene. The doctors said they would have to amputate her leg from at least the knee. "Gram" informed the doctors that an amputation would not be necessary; the doctors had a good laugh. She called everyone she knew, and told them to call everyone they knew: she was NOT going to lose her leg; if Christains could pray for her, Buddhists and others meditate on her behalf, "New Agers" send her positive energy, she would be okay. On the day of the "amputation," Gram told the doctors to look at her foot, they could save her appointment for someone else. To appease the elderly woman, the doctors unwrapped her foot to "check for a heartbeat." Not only did they find a heartbeat -- the gangrene, save a couple of millimeters on a couple of toes, was gone. The doctors deemed it a miracle. They didn't know Gram.

---

Enigmagirl - great story about Gram. Thanks for telling me/everyone how I/they can heal my/themselves!

posted 01-06-2001 05:37 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by lostfairytales:
I didn't project myself into anyone person. I was like a spirit without a body. I was just there in his room seeing it for the very first time. He tried to project himself to my room, but couldn't. That is what happened. I was stuck in his room and he couldn't understand. I totally don't know why, but it happened. I never project myself into another human being. It just isn't right and I'd totally feel akward if I did. I never knew it was possible to project yourself until that guy came into my life. I've been doing it all my life just not knowing I was doing it in a consciencous state. You see, I'd do it most often while I'm asleep at more ease than usual when awake. Strange, huh?

---

No, it's really not strange, but it IS interesting! We all astral travel every time we sleep. We just usually remembered the experince skewed since we don't normally consciously leave our bodies. But it seems you do. Do you think about leaving your body and then it happens? What are the steps you take?

posted 01-06-2001 07:01 PM            

You sure have Roman figured out. I hope he chooses the shock treatment because if prayer helped him he would never admit it.

At least by using his physical senses, he can conclude the shock thratment made him better.

He has no desire to learn beyond his physical senses of taste, smell, touch, hearing and vision. He has not studied those who have experienced the possibility of a sixth sense.

Hopefully many of the five senses will confirm his shock treatment made him better, where prayer will not convince a universal skeptic.

With the price of electricity these days, I'm not sure he is worth it.

Pray for me, I believe I am still not perfect like Roman.

Satire.

quote:

---

Originally posted by psichick:
You are such a big jerk it isn't funny. You are the dumbest person to think he's smart that I've ever run across! AND, when one is stubborn to boot (as you are) there is very little chance you will develop the skills to increase your level of intelligence, since you are severely limiting your knowledge base.

It is common knowledge that one can increase their level of intelligence, the more one reads. Your quoting scientists and politicians out of context shows that what you HAVE read is not being well absorbed by you. You are probably still in shock from some incident that you won't share with us, NoMan. Hate to say it, but you are in dire need of either intensive prayer or shock treatment!

ANYONE UP FOR SAYING PRAYERS FOR NOMAN?

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[This message has been edited by Satire (edited 01-06-2001).]

posted 01-07-2001 04:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lostfairytales:
Yes, I do leave my body as often as needed I guess. Well, when I projected myself on my own whelm, I just concentrated hard and there I was. I was in that guy's room while he tried to project himself to me which I'm sure didn't occur right. It leaves you very weak afterwards. Did you want to project yourself somewhere, psichick?

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posted 01-07-2001 09:42 AM            

Interesting Story:

There are many such acounts recorded as astral projection incidents.

In Sylvia Browne's Book, "Life on the Other Side" in a chapter on sex. (p.134)

"the good news is, we engage in another form of intimacy that far exceeds the sexual act in intensity." "Merging is the act of two souls literally blending together, physically, spiritually and emotionally to a state of utter mutual bliss."

"While neither spirit loses its own idendity during merging, they do for some moments become one, sharing all of each others wisdom, passion, history, sorrow and joy."

Your statement below.....

"As usual she hovered around him, and her favorite trick was to walk in to someone's body and see through their eyes."

.....is certainly one more experience which only adds to the list of many now recorded.

Thanks,

Satire.

quote:

---

Originally posted by TommyTerror:
I don't know if I believe in astral projection or not - I've never consciously experienced it. But it definitely exists as a fascinating theory, and in that framework I'll relate a friend's story.

Also I vaguely remember going out of body as a child. I was petrified of monsters and the only way I could escape them at night is if I felt myself snapping out of my body. I still remember the sensation really well, and having read about astral projection it was the exact same kind of snap. But I would black out as soon as I slipped out so I sure as hell dunno.

But my friend often talked about experiencing walk-ins coming through her and seeing the world through her eyes. We lost touch for many years, and I got this strange call from her in Paris. She was moving to Hong Kong the next day and she was freaked out. She claimed she'd started astral projecting a lot, and she'd think of someone's name and then she'd be hovering over them. Coincidentally, altho I hadn't heard hide nor hair of her in over 5 years, an hour before she called that day I thought I felt her presence in my living room and I knew she was going to be calling. So anyway, she thinks of a friend's name, and there she is. Only she got mixed up somewhere, and ended up at this teacher's classroom - he had the same name as one of her childhood friends. It was at a big university and he was giving a lecture. As usual she hovered around him, and her favorite trick was to walk in to someone's body and see through their eyes. While she was doing this, he suddenly interrupted the lecture saying he had a headache, gave some homework, and retired to an adjacent room. She followed him, and the minute he was alone he started talking to her. He asked her name, and who she was, and what she was doing. She got alarmed, and instantly found herself back in her Paris apartment. Suddenly she became aware that he had followed her out of his body, and he was now looking around her apartment, at photographs and the like, altho he refrained from walking in to her body. He apparently psychically communicated his telephone number, he was a professor of Parapsychology at a very reputable school, and left. She called the number, got his machine, and left a message. And then she called me, utterly freaked out.

I calmed her down as best I could, ironically she was very much a materialist and honestly thought she was going crazy. She probably never took her psychic experiences and ramblings very seriously. She gave me her Hong Kong number, and we agreed to wait and see what happened.

Her phone number was never activated, and I moved out of New York shortly thereafter. I never did hear what happened to her.

Trippy, huh?

---

posted 01-07-2001 02:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jcole:
Roman not all of us care or are concerned about being productive members of a society. The price is too high in the larger picture.

---

This pretty much sums it all up. Not being responsible or productive, just settling for convenient conclusions and wishful thoughts on this thread. At least one of you is brave enough to admit the obvious faults in beliefs like these.

posted 01-07-2001 02:18 PM            

I give those people more credit for realizing the limitations of their beliefs early on. And it says a lot about the one or two people who still try to carry on the mythical torch. They're either too dumb to realize they're not convincing other people, or they are comfortable in stubborn ignorance and they don't care about being part of the intelligent, rational world, quite happy in their own little worlds - full of all kinds of magical, imaginary things.

Either way, it certainly makes you wonder about the kinds of people that have to resort to beliefs like this, and what makes them have to invent beliefs just to get on with their day ... You have to almost feel sorry for these people and their stories, until you realize they made these choices on their own, and that people sometimes choose bad choices and feel very happy as long as someone doesn't come along and tear down the illusions for them...

posted 01-07-2001 02:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Satire:
Hi Psichick:

You sure have Roman figured out. I hope he chooses the shock treatment because if prayer helped him he would never admit it.

At least by using his physical senses, he can conclude the shock thratment made him better.

He has no desire to learn beyond his physical senses of taste, smell, touch, hearing and vision. He has not studied those who have experienced the possibility of a sixth sense.

Hopefully many of the five senses will confirm his shock treatment made him better, where prayer will not convince a universal skeptic.

With the price of electricity these days, I'm not sure he is worth it.

Pray for me, I believe I am still not perfect like Roman.

Satire.

[This message has been edited by Satire (edited 01-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Satire (edited 01-07-2001).]

---

Yes, I think I do have Roman figured out. Those issues of Psychology Today must have done it!

But I decided being hard on him is wrong, and I am changing. I would like to help if I can.

Ashamed of me? Help me out?

posted 01-07-2001 02:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Isabel:
Roman: I've been reading, all this. I'm not gone yet.

---

Marlena - perfect! Ha, ha, ha!

Roman - I am willing to help you. Seriously.

posted 01-07-2001 03:00 PM            

Happy you have not been driven away as Roman suggested.

He thinks he has the ability to drive people off this thread.

It turns out your starting this thread was a good idea. Quite a few Out of Body experiences have been recorded here.

Thank you Isabel.

Satire.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Isabel:
Roman: I've been reading, all this. I'm not gone yet.

---

posted 01-07-2001 03:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Isabel:
satire, psichick:
I've been reading all this and seen how people get involved with their knowledgment. I respect you all as well as roman. The thing is roman is a little "problematic". So is better to just not get involved. Is good that you want to hepl him, but his a brilliant guy, but helpless.
Isabel

---

Hi Marlena! I'm sure you know that most atheists are atheists because they lost someone very close to them, despite praying to God. They think that by denying His existence, they are punishing God for letting their loved one(s) die. Maybe they don't do that consciously.

Also, I used to know this homosexual male who refused to believe in God, because the Catholic Church, of all things, denounced gay men at one time. They no longer do, because they realize there are a lot of gay men working as priests (maybe even nuns, who knows?)! Now, their stand is that gay men are accepted, but they still frown upon same sex intercourse. (In other words, it's okay that yo're gay, just don't do it.) It's possible some atheists are still homosexuals.

posted 01-07-2001 03:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by roman74:
This pretty much sums it all up. Not being responsible or productive, just settling for convenient conclusions and wishful thoughts on this thread. At least one of you is brave enough to admit the obvious faults in beliefs like these.

Each one of your beliefs counts on a larger picture - that's why it's even more important you choose more responsible beliefs.

---

posted 01-07-2001 04:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by TommyTerror:
So what do you think of Roman now, Isabel?

I started reading the posts from the beginning, I still haven't read them all. Roman was actually a little more open and sweet initially. A little poetic and profound. What happened? What started this insane tantrum?

---

posted 01-07-2001 08:31 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by TommyTerror:
So what do you think of Roman now, Isabel?

I started reading the posts from the beginning, I still haven't read them all. Roman was actually a little more open and sweet initially. A little poetic and profound. What happened? What started this insane tantrum?

---

It has been one of the saddest. . . .no, most tragic, lessons of my life that sociopaths take on the most inviting and gregarious manners, bending over backward to please, at the outset of a relationship that suits their aims. Then whether they get their way or are denied it, some monstrous hate in them lurches outward to engulf all around.

I have fallen naively prey to more than one in my life. I now can tell the truly sweet from the ambitiously so in a few encounters. Just watch for when they first reach for control. Control is the one motive they never lose sight of, and everyone be damned who gets in their way.

posted 01-07-2001 09:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Isabel:
jcole: This is not my castle, this is everybody's home. Freedom of expression.
Isabel

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posted 01-07-2001 11:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by roman74:
I think the most important thing is that the person that started this thread and others like her who have posted have realized very early on how pointless beliefs like this are. And also how pointless it is to admit to believing in stuff like this on a site dedicated to professionalism and productivity. I'm sure they realized that it's even more irrational to try to convince intelligent people of perceived supernatural and psychic interpretations. Good choice in leaving, Isabel and the rest of you!

I give those people more credit for realizing the limitations of their beliefs early on. And it says a lot about the one or two people who still try to carry on the mythical torch. They're either too dumb to realize they're not convincing other people, or they are comfortable in stubborn ignorance and they don't care about being part of the intelligent, rational world, quite happy in their own little worlds - full of all kinds of magical, imaginary things.

Either way, it certainly makes you wonder about the kinds of people that have to resort to beliefs like this, and what makes them have to invent beliefs just to get on with their day ... You have to almost feel sorry for these people and their stories, until you realize they made these choices on their own, and that people sometimes choose bad choices and feel very happy as long as someone doesn't come along and tear down the illusions for them...

Maybe that's why they keep the mythical torch burning ... hoping someday, some intelligent person might actually believe what they have to say.

---

Roman, is it possible that you have never witnessed a miracle? I fully respect your beliefs, but to judge another's intelligence on their personal mythology might be going a little far. My own mythology, what have you, relies on just as much faith as any other, if not more -- yet Mensa has scored my IQ at 153; I've aced every class I've ever taken, including college courses; theories I've come up with on cancer and the workings of the universe are now being independantly studied by prestigious scientists. . .I believe I would be classified as anything but stupid.

Like I said, I respect your beliefs. . .I just find it very sad, however, that such beliefs make you feel that you have the right to tell others they are wrong. The fact of the matter is you really do not know the truths that lie beyond our existence, saying there is one -- no one human being on the face of this planet does.

posted 01-08-2001 02:18 AM            

I have to say, this little thread has genuinely inspired me to continue my psychic studies. I've dug out all my old course work amd I plan to re-enroll in the psychic classes that meant so much to me at one time.

A couple bad relationships turned me off exploring or even discussing metaphysics a few years ago, and I just quit growing. It's evident from these arguments that I need to be working with my beliefs on a daily basis in order to articulate them.

It's hard to find people who can keep an open mind about psychic research and phenomena. I completely spiritually connected with one relationship. We literally stayed up all night talking for an entire week. As a result of that kind of overwhelming connection, I think I naively trusted this person unconditionally. 2 months later uncovered an unbelievable amount of deceit. This person had a real pathology, the ability and compulsion to echo others and conform to their desires. The abyss between ideals and reality bummed me out, and I carried that into the next relationship with an agnostic who made fun of my psychic exploration. I don't know how I dropped the ball, opting for a kind of suburban materialistic complacency... but butting heads with some of the bricks here has inspired me to resume the struggle.

posted 01-08-2001 07:42 AM            

Psychic Studies can at least help us understand that many of us have already used senses beyond our five physical senses.

I encourage the study of Psychic Phenomena.

Satire.

quote:

---

Originally posted by TommyTerror:
interesting enigma, enigma girl.

I have to say, this little thread has genuinely inspired me to continue my psychic studies. I've dug out all my old course work amd I plan to re-enroll in the psychic classes that meant so much to me at one time.

A couple bad relationships turned me off exploring or even discussing metaphysics a few years ago, and I just quit growing. It's evident from these arguments that I need to be working with my beliefs on a daily basis in order to articulate them.

It's hard to find people who can keep an open mind about psychic research and phenomena. I completely spiritually connected with one relationship. We literally stayed up all night talking for an entire week. As a result of that kind of overwhelming connection, I think I naively trusted this person unconditionally. 2 months later uncovered an unbelievable amount of deceit. This person had a real pathology, the ability and compulsion to echo others and conform to their desires. The abyss between ideals and reality bummed me out, and I carried that into the next relationship with an agnostic who made fun of my psychic exploration. I don't know how I dropped the ball, opting for a kind of suburban materialistic complacency... but butting heads with some of the bricks here has inspired me to resume the struggle.

And psychic research is a struggle. It's not accepted, it's not regulated. It's deeply personal work, and often very illusory work. It's an exciting challenge and can lead to exciting knowledge.

---

posted 01-08-2001 02:35 PM            

To quote you:

"I have seen miracles. Be it by mythology or enlightenment, I'm a better person for all that I've witnessed in my short life. To each his/her own."

So very well articulated.

Satire.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Enigmagirl:
Roman, is it possible that you have never witnessed a miracle? I fully respect your beliefs, but to judge another's intelligence on their personal mythology might be going a little far. My own mythology, what have you, relies on just as much faith as any other, if not more -- yet Mensa has scored my IQ at 153; I've aced every class I've ever taken, including college courses; theories I've come up with on cancer and the workings of the universe are now being independantly studied by prestigious scientists. . .I believe I would be classified as anything but stupid.

Like I said, I respect your beliefs. . .I just find it very sad, however, that such beliefs make you feel that you have the right to tell others they are wrong. The fact of the matter is you really do not know the truths that lie beyond our existence, saying there is one -- no one human being on the face of this planet does.

I have seen miracles. Be it by mythology or enlightenment, I'm a better person for all that I've witnessed in my short life. To each his/her own.

---

posted 01-08-2001 05:22 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Enigmagirl:
Roman, is it possible that you have never witnessed a miracle? I fully respect your beliefs, but to judge another's intelligence on their personal mythology might be going a little far. My own mythology, what have you, relies on just as much faith as any other, if not more -- yet Mensa has scored my IQ at 153; I've aced every class I've ever taken, including college courses; theories I've come up with on cancer and the workings of the universe are now being independantly studied by prestigious scientists. . .I believe I would be classified as anything but stupid.

Like I said, I respect your beliefs. . .I just find it very sad, however, that such beliefs make you feel that you have the right to tell others they are wrong. The fact of the matter is you really do not know the truths that lie beyond our existence, saying there is one -- no one human being on the face of this planet does.

I have seen miracles. Be it by mythology or enlightenment, I'm a better person for all that I've witnessed in my short life. To each his/her own.

---

Hi Enigmagirl! I would really love to hear about the miracles you've seen/heard about! Will you share?

posted 01-08-2001 06:05 PM            

Tommy, I would encourage you to definitely return to your studies; a psychic without fine-tuning is like a singer without a voice coach -- the gift is there, but will never be fully realized until training has been seriously saught out. There is a similar school about an hour away from where I live; everyone except for my boyfriend has been encouraging me to enroll. . .my boyfriend doesn't like me doing psychic work (unless he's got a headache that needs "sucking out"). He says he's afraid I'll hurt someone -- or myself. He fears because he doesn't understand.

posted 01-08-2001 06:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Enigmagirl:
Satire, thank you for your kind words.

Tommy, I would encourage you to definitely return to your studies; a psychic without fine-tuning is like a singer without a voice coach -- the gift is there, but will never be fully realized until training has been seriously saught out. There is a similar school about an hour away from where I live; everyone except for my boyfriend has been encouraging me to enroll. . .my boyfriend doesn't like me doing psychic work (unless he's got a headache that needs "sucking out"). He says he's afraid I'll hurt someone -- or myself. He fears because he doesn't understand.

Psichick, I would prefer to discuss my more in-depth experiences via e-mail. Let me know if that works for you.

---

Enigmagirl - Okay - anomalies0@yahoo.com

Janet

posted 01-08-2001 06:09 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by roman74:
Miracles = Perceived cause/effect relationships of non-local events, due to the rationalization of emotional needs for meaning in purpose in an otherwise meaningless universe. This is opposed to directly observable cause/effect relationships that can be explained through empirical and consistent data.

Emotions, if left out of control, can cause one to search for meaning where there otherwise is none. Rationality is used to tame the emotions, if you will, to prevent settling for convenient conclusions.

---

Josh - does this mean you love no one anymore?