posted 01-01-2001 03:44 AM            

Is this the start?

How much goes back to your parents? To your relations with the opposite (or same sex)?

I heard a theory that our personalities reflect our physical body because we learn to solve problems physically first.

What are our secret fears? Are those our biggest motivators?

posted 01-01-2001 07:38 AM            

Listen, I don't mean to be negative here, but if you run through the first 5 pages of this Board, you'll see several attempts by people here who are serious about writing related issues to start threads like this most excellent one. After 10 or 15 or maybe even 30 posts (but it only seems to get that high after someone mentions Mr. A) the Thread tends to fade into obscurity with only the author of it bumping it.

I have to toot our own horn here and say this: The Tree House Writer's Forum is just that -- we have fun, yes, we goof around, yes, but the primary focus of the House is for writers, by writers, about writing. And not just screenplays, but novellas, short stories, plays, etc.

Peer reviews of your work, NOT anonymous, NO forms and no "rating" scales, happen on a thread dedicated to your work, with instant messaging features that allow people to contact you directly at the House or to email you, and the ability to post their reviews directly to your work's thread. AND reviewers get to pick and choose the work they WANT to read, by genre, type, etc.

In addition to this, at this moment we have writers querying members for research expertise about steroids and about gaurdian angels. We have members with expertise that is so diverse you won't believe unless you see it. Our members have started a thread that talks about outlines and how much in depth writers go when creating them, there's an ongoing discussion about David Lynch films ... and of our 58 members, about 90% of them are some of the cream of the Greenlight crop.

So, here's the wrap up of this long winded post: if you're getting the same feeling many of us are getting: That PGL is quickly becoming more and more a fan site or a joke site or a sex site, and less and less about writing for writers ... take a spin 'round the Tree House, see what you think. You don't have to "defect" from PGL, but you can find there people who want to do what this contest started out for: become a part of a community of writers.
http://byroads.com/steeletreehouse

And that's all I have to say about that.

Happy New Year everyone.

posted 01-01-2001 08:30 AM            

There is no end to the sufficiency of character. It can afford to wait; it can do without what is called success.

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Ralph Waldo Emerson, " Character" Lectures and Biographical Skettches, 1903-1904.

A great character founded on the living rock of principle, is a dispensation of Providence, designed to have not merely an immediate, but a continuous, progressive, and never -ending agency. It survives the man who possesed it; survives his age perhaps his country, his language.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<<<<<Just me now ;-)

Websters Defo< Character: capable of portraying an unusual or eccentric personality often marked differently from the player <a~actor>

To be able to ditinguish and express an essential nature of an individual some sort of detectable action from one another must be shown.
That is why when developing characters in film so many actors try to find a similar real person to learn from in order to make the character more believable.
Through the eyes of the actor we see the nature of the character.
Because of our love for the arts one wishes to portray as close as possible to the real McCoy to pull off a great performance.

I personally write about characters I have seen in others and the changes within myself.
To have the the true character of God would be the ideal life character...
(for myself here i am talking.)
Imagine if we where able to walk around in a state of peace an uncondtional love all the time, but this is the real world!

As you grow and learn the greater your own ability to create new and more interesting characters.
All inspiration comes from the Creator of art to begin with!
Along with our own experiences and inspirations that we find through life just happening.
'-)

posted 01-01-2001 08:59 AM            

In a story, a protagonist (the person from who's perspective the audience experiences the story events—but you already know that) has a goal. (In real life, we normally have many.) Obstacles block him/her from reaching that goal. Each character in the story, likewise, has goals. There are even goals for each scene and each story beat (according to McKee and it makes sense to me).

I don't think it's essential to understand the entire spectrum of human behavior and motivation to determine what these goals are. In a story, they're reduced to the story, as a whole, and its divisions.

lostfairytales put it well. Characters are presented with situations and an environment and behave according to their goals. As the story designer, you determine what those goals are and that environment is.

Last night, I posted a thread about a story "problem" I was having. I knew the environment and the character, as well as what my protagonist's emotional reaction was. But I wasn't sure how to have her behave to best convey that reaction. I got some great ideas. Some didn't fit with her internal make-up and others were out of context with the environment in which she needed to react. Others worked. It was an illuminating exercise for me, and I hope, for those who participated.

The one mistake, according to McKee (and I agree) that new screenwriters make is thinking that they have to sit down and bang the story out without first analyzing its components to make sure that decisions made, fit with the message you're trying to convey. For story, according to me (McKee didn't speak directly to this), is about the message, the moral, that one is trying to show or teach through the story events and characters. Therefore, eveything has to support that message and in a logical way and order.

posted 01-03-2001 09:26 AM            

quote:

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I heard a theory that our personalities reflect our physical body because we learn to solve problems physically first.

[/B]

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My wife is 5'1" and 100lbs. She has a big personality. Perhaps it reflects the opposite.

posted 01-03-2001 10:33 AM            

The short story that "The Shawshank Redemption" was based on was called "Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption". Also, we can't forget about his characters from "The Green Mile", which, like you said, are very three-dimensional.

I know of another writer (Robert Jordan) who gives his female characters (and there are plenty in his books) some bit of personality based on his wife. One female character might have her charm, another one her stubborness, and so on; and so you get a feeling of very, very developed characters that have a real feeling to them.

But then again, this same process bears the question: if characters (be it in novels, screenplays, etc.) are to mirror human beings as we know it... how is it that you can build 10 totally different, and real, characters based on essentially one single root?

I think that subconsciously we create characters based on people we've known throughout our lives; something that sticks with us about their personality, or their physical aspects, or their beliefs that translate into a three-dimensional model on paper.

Life, the one each of us lives, as different as it might be, is what, I believe, gives our made-up characters its roots.

But then again, that's just me.

Cheers!

posted 01-03-2001 10:51 AM            

Also, we can't forget about his characters from "The Green Mile", which, like you said, are very three-dimensional.----absolutely. I also liked that the books were done as a series that were published month to month.

But then again, this same process bears the question: if characters (be it in novels, screenplays, etc.) are to mirror human beings as we know it... how is it that you can build 10 totally different, and real, characters based on essentially one single root?

I think that subconsciously we create characters based on people we've known throughout our lives; something that sticks with us about their personality, or their physical aspects, or their beliefs that translate into a three-dimensional model on paper.----I think that you are totally right about this. I have a really good friend named Richard Bausch. He has published about seven novels and tons of short stories. His stories have been published in lots of magazines including Playboy, The New Yorker, and the Atlantic monthly. I have been to his house a lot and in the last story that he wrote (a novel called 'In the Night Season') the setting is basically where he lives. If you go to his house you can see everything about the setting of the novel right down to a cow pasture. It is also set in the county where he and I live.
I think that art is your experience as well as a little embellishing. I think your stories come from your experience as well as stories of others.
I think you can build ten different characters because people are different. Even though we may have similar needs, wants, desires, we have all chosen different paths in order to achieve them. Those paths come laced with triumph and failure, shame and fear, love and loathing. Each character has circumstances that take them to this place and for some characters it may be the idea that they never reach their goal.

I think that life and art live simultaneously in a gray area. People seek out art and art seeks out people.

posted 01-03-2001 11:14 AM            

But then again, that's just me.

Cheers!

posted 01-03-2001 11:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Berethrof:
How many times do you guys and gals think we write a story to find out more about ourselves and the people around us? I'm finding out more and more that the dream of becoming a writer to make tons of money and be really famous has never been there; it's always been a sort of helplessness against the desire, the need, to write, maybe in hopes of finding a little bit more about myself instead of hiding from it.

But then again, that's just me.

Cheers!

-Ber

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For me, writing is my one and only opportunity for me to get rid of all my inhibitions. I do and say things through my characters that I never would say as myself. I made a promise to the writer part me along time ago that since I censor myself in real life on a daily basis, I will never censor myself on the page. That's what makes a great character for me. So I don't know if it so much getting to know myself, but revealing myself.

posted 01-03-2001 03:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by catsociald:
What is the root of a character? Are they motivated by a single emotion? I knew a kid who did everything based on spite. His every act was a big fuck you to the world...
What are the roots of character?

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Your example - of a kid who did everything based on spite - is interesting. This person was not motivated by spite - more likely it was anger, hurt or rejection that motivated him to act a certain way.

I think there's a big difference between an actor playing a character and a writer developing one, and I'm not positive which you are discussing here...but it seems like you are talking mostly about writing, so I'll stick to that.

Characters develop according to their own natural and instinctual patterns when I am writing. They tend to take on a life of their own - if they don't, I know I am not doing my job. They are not reflections of me, though I do think writing is autobiographical in nature in the sense that writers tend to #1) write about what they know or #2) write about what they are interested in or #3) write as catharsis or #4) write to delve into some area of their psyche. Of course, there are some big exceptions to this rule but in general I think it holds up. Just like what kind of job a fictional character has reveals something about their character.

I don't think film is as good a medium to convey characters in depth, but occasionally it is done successfully. Filmaking uses "shortcuts" to reveal character development in a way that a novelist probably would not. Whether this is because of sloppy writing or the format itself I don't know. Unfortunately alot of people bankrolling movies these days think audiences aren't interested in character development, but of course they are. They don't sit thru a movie to see special effects, but rather how a character deals with a problem or reaches a goal.

posted 01-04-2001 08:44 AM            

We've mentioned that physical appearances are the main advantage film characters have. What if these physical appearances indicate things not readily apparent in a novel. One example is Gregory Peck as Atticus Finch in "To Kill a Mockingbird." He wears a suit to dinner with his family, his stiff movements, his distraction with the weight of the world on his shoulders is something mentioned in the book, but Atticus truly comes alive in the film.

What about a straight film character like Marge in "Fargo"? Marge is original, straight to film (the Coen Bros have admitted that the film is NOT based on a true story), and I think a really well-developed character. I wonder if a book would be able to describe the easy love she has with her husband or the fact that she carries her pregnancy with such grace, we can tell how much she loves her family and all this makes her little speech at the end very powerful.

And as for basing characters on real life: I'd say that's a starting block. We may base their dialogue, their situation, their habits or something else on a person, but we can't get everything. I don't think anybody could ever capture me truthfully, not even me. They'll miss pieces and misinterpret others.

posted 01-04-2001 09:05 AM            

For example: The thing that makes Will what he is in GWH is that he has NOT acted on his genuis. A story about a person is boring, but when you put the genius in a situation where he is asked to act upon his talent and he refuses, that is who he is and that makes a character.

posted 01-07-2001 06:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Berethrof:
How many times do you guys and gals think we write a story to find out more about ourselves and the people around us? I'm finding out more and more that the dream of becoming a writer to make tons of money and be really famous has never been there; it's always been a sort of helplessness against the desire, the need, to write, maybe in hopes of finding a little bit more about myself instead of hiding from it.

But then again, that's just me.

Cheers!

-Ber

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