posted 01-10-2001 08:38 PM            

"Painting. Sculpture. Composing. Singing. Acting. The playing of a musical instrument. Writing. Enough books have been written on these seven subjects alone to sink a fleet of luxury liners. And the only thing we seem able to agree upon about them is this: that those who practise these arts honestly would continue to pratise them even if they were not paid for their efforts; even if their efforts were criticized or even reviled; even on pain of imprisonment or death."

posted 01-10-2001 08:54 PM            

Parsell, you must be female. You seem too gentle to be male. That's a compliment, BTW!

I have a nice zen riddle for you as the last trick I can think of at the moment. It's not so much a teaching tool as something to keep a class busy for the whole period on days when you're feeling off.

It's a brain teaser. I never tried applying it to art but I bet you could. Interpretation, maybe. The same message about how we look at things. Part of "creativity."

Hopefully, you've not heard it before. Ok, here goes.

You're locked inside an empty room. The only things in the room are two computers. One ALWAYS lies and the other one ALWAYS tells the truth. There is no way to tell which is which.

There are also two doors in the room. Both are identical. Let's say they're door A and door B. One of them leads to certain happiness and the other leads to certain death. Once you open a door, you meet your fate awaiting you there. There's no turning back.

You can ask one, and only one question of one computer, in an attempt to discover which door is which.

What is the question you ask and then, what do you do?

posted 01-10-2001 09:02 PM            

-- I heard something similar a long time ago... I don't recall the answer... I'd like to use this as a brain teaser (The one who solves it gets lunch on me), but I'd better have the correct answer before I spring it on them...

posted 01-10-2001 09:36 PM            

The dishonest computer will answer maybe

posted 01-10-2001 10:06 PM            

I feel a need to go off track of the current discussion theme for a moment. Sorry.

Matt,

Don't know if you're still online.

I'm older than you. For what it's worth, I do understand what you have described for I travel a similiar path.

When I was first diagnosed with a chronic invisible illness ten years ago, the uneducated remarks I heard daily hurt as much, if not more, than the daily pain. (ie: You look fine, you MUST be well.
etc., etc., etc.)

It felt like I'd dropped off the planet and had landed in a parallell dimention speaking words no one could understand.

The pain of the illness was part of the situation. It hurt, but could be managed - some days more successfully than others. The thoughtless remarks could have easily been prevented by a little consideration and by people putting themselves in my place. (Not very self absorbed of me, was it?

Until I realized that I was wanting the improbable. The only way anyone honestly could understand what I was going through was to experience things (life) as I was. Once I understood the Key to true understanding is experience, it became much easier to hear hurtful words and not take them personally. Well, not most of the time, anyway.

You are indeed wise for one so young and fortunate to have good, trustworthy friends who stand beside you.

There will be ok days, and bad days. Focus on what you Can do. Lean on your friends when you need to.

I use an analogy to describe my life and the impact of the illness on it.
Before I was ill I was like a catapilliar, taking care of my life in my own earthbound way. When I first became ill, it was as if I was in a cocoon. Transforming my life (my Self).
Now it feels like I'm breaking through the cocoon to become a butterfly.
Then I can take care of my life with wings, from a different perspective.
I don't know that I'd ever thought about, much less known, I could have wings before my illness.

Most times it helps to think about it in those terms. Sometimes it still just makes me angry.

It's all part of the transformational process we each go through. We go through all the coping stages and then I think I'm past the anger. It's true, for a while. It is a continual adjustment, for the stage du joir. Humor & satire help get through the days.

If you'd like to talk or share, I'll be around. My warm thoughts are with you.

namiste'

angelleigh

<<<<<BBBEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPBBBEEEEEP>>>>>
We Now Return You To Your Previous
discussion in progress...

posted 01-11-2001 06:34 AM            

Angeleigh, I'm in a SLIGHTLY similar boat to you and Matt. I have fibromyalgia. Sometimes the pain gets intense and I've even had to use crutches to walk my legs hurt so badly.

Most of the time, however, it's manageable. But some people simply deny it exists. If you're not coughing, snuffling, have scars, or something they can see and hear, it's just not real to them. I know I sometimes experience the same thing. Someone will tell me they have a bad headache, for example, and because I don't happen to have one at the time, I simply forget. I think that's just part of human nature. Not having sensory clues makes it harder for the information to have meaning to you.

One condition associated w/ fibromyalgia, as well as another condition I have, is short term memory loss. I've had people tell me that I couldn't possibly have forgotten "X" for this reason and that when, in fact, that's JUST what I've done. It's not like that for them and so they have a lot of trouble comprehending and empathizing that it is that way for me. Sometimes when you explain, they believe you, and sometimes they just don't. My response...

Fuck 'em! Not in a bad way, of course. But others' reactions are their reactions. They don't have to be yours. Unless you let them. Often, the best way to handle others' lack of understanding, is simply not to react to it. It's their problem, not yours.

Sometimes I'll ask them to feel a spasming muscle in my neck or leg so it's more real to them. "Oh," they'll reply. "You mean that's not a bone?" "Nope," I say "it's a muscle." That often helps them "get" that I'm not just making something up for whatever reason they think I might. It depends on how important I think it is for them to understand and how much I think they need to.

I am sorry, that both of you have had to experience the degree of pain you've described. That's just a real pisser! You might be interested in the "Thread Killers" thread. (An odd place for a discussion on physical pain, but there you have it.)

posted 01-11-2001 08:09 AM            

<<<<<Angelleigh
Your name fits your an angel sent from heaven above!

When they close these boards down I will miss you all so much!

posted 01-11-2001 10:21 AM            

I must say I have to agree with both FMA and Parsell. Your story has merit in that it teachers us to look beyond our woes and struggles in life, even beyond the pain and indifference of others, and the torture of that which we daily struggle through. Yet I also believe that in a way it forgets one simple thing... It isn't that easy to just forget about everything, all the bad things in life. It takes far more work than in a matter of seconds to realize everygthing that one is thankful for and to appreciate the beauty of life amidst difficulties..... It is easier said than doine, in other words.

posted 01-11-2001 12:21 PM            

Angelleigh, first of all I wanted to thank you for sharing your story with me (and anyone else out there who is listening). Sometimes it feels as though I am so alone. You reminded me that I am not, and to think that we have experienced such similar things really does make a difference, at least to me, knowing that there are others out there who do understand.

I usually don't like to talk about the past ten months, nor do I like to think about the next year and the following year and the rest of my life, because thogh I am supposedly in remission as we speak, the problem that I have could crop up at any time..... I usually don't even like to think about it, especially when so many have heard what I have had to say and have turned away. But you reminded me that i am not the only one out there who feels alone and unheard, and I thank you for that.

It means a lot to know that others, too, have been rebuffed by others, especially teachers. People have said to me when I was at my worst stage, Just forget about it... Or If you can't even be happy, just pretend... I tried that at first, but then I became rather weary of the facade. People told me not to express my feelings...

posted 01-11-2001 12:26 PM            

<<I must also add that Matt is a very intelligent and caring person, and I am awed by her amazing strength and wonderful guidance. It's been a tough year, that's for sure, and I'm honored to know her and call her a friend. People like you, Matt, are one in a million. I hope you know that I appreciate our friendship greatly.>>

I am really really touched by your post, FMA. There are so many words, but it would take a million to describe how much I, too , have been blessed by your presence. You are one of the special people that I have mentioned. You are one of the ones who have made the biggest impact. Sometimes late at night I lay in bed and i think about what turns my life has taken and what is to come, and there is not a single night when my mind doesn't wander to thoughts of you and how lucky I am to know you and to have you for a friend. The feelings of which you speak are mutual. You have touched my life in everty way

posted 01-11-2001 12:33 PM            

<<There are those few stars who are motivated for a different reason. Teaching is who they are, not something they do. They simply have discovered, be they the language by which we communicate, the beauty and predictability of mathmatics, or the workings of the animal body. They're fascinated and fascinating. They're inspired and are inspiring. Those are our master teachers. I'm sure you've encountered one or two along the way. >>>

I know exactly who you are talking about (you know this person, too FMA) and I agree.... he is one with whom we could never live without...

By the way, while we're writing about such inspirational topics..... here is an example for all of you regarding one of the greatest teachers ever....

posted 01-11-2001 12:43 PM            

<<<Do you have any more wonderful little gems I can share with my students?>>>>>

I definitely do.... aside from that one thing I mentioned earlier about my art teacher which reflects true caring for another individual.. This is actually a "parable" type thing from the movie Michael.... about the archangle who was brought to earth to help two people fall in love, only he didn't make his purpose known to the man. The man questioned something about life. And the angel said the following...."The North Wind and the Sun were having an argument over who was smarter, who was stronger.... Each went back and forth stating reasons as to why they were the highest force, but until a man walked by, pressing his arms closely to his chest, holding a winter coat as tight as he could to him, there was no proof. The North Wind and the Sun saw this man and the the North wind said, "I bet I can get the man to take off his coat...." But the stornger the wind blew, the tighter the man held his coat to his chest. The wind blew and blew and blew, but the man just held that coat tighter and tighter to his body until the wind had no choice but to give up. "Good luck," said the north wind to the sun, "I can't do it." So what did the sun do? The sun came out, and the man took off his coat...."

Of course, the movie says it much more eloquently, but the point remains the same, and that's why it is a most appropriate posting to our thread..... In simple terms, I think it means that the more aggressive you are, the harsher you are to both people around you and to situations, the more difficult the sitation becomes. Increasing the severity of thigns does not get you anywhere. What does? A simple act of kindess... any act.... The sun wasn't trying to force the coat off the man physically, as was the sun... Rather, its warmth warmed the man, the man became overheaeted and took off his coat....

posted 01-11-2001 12:51 PM            

U really think so , FMA?

You're sweet.... as always....Ben is equally if not more lucky to have you as a friend and fan (one day even a wife!)

posted 01-11-2001 03:59 PM            

Thanks for the tip about the thread killers thread. I will check it out. I knew you sounded like a kindred spirit.

Matt

I don't like to talk about it, either.

Anger is necessary and normal. People have no idea how much energy can be spent avoiding and pretending. We just need that energy elsewhere.

When it feels like it's too much, I tell myself to just float. It's like being in the middle of the ocean. You don't want to wear yourself out swimming when you know it's not going to get you anywhere but a different patch of water.

I admire your words, and your spirit.

namiste'

aleigh

posted 01-11-2001 04:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt Is The Best:
Parsell...

<<<Do you have any more wonderful little gems I can share with my students?>>>>>

I definitely do.... The strongest ones are those who lend a helping hand, a heart, and a shoulder to lean on. Know these few people, and you'll never be the same again. Ever

---

Thank you for your stories... It's wonderful to see a young woman so in tune with the truly valuable aspects of life. Relationships are the most important facet, yet too many people forget. I will definitely share your insight with my students.

posted 01-11-2001 04:14 PM            

I completely understand where you are coming from.... This is incredible... Finally someone whose every word matches every word of what is in my heart, in terms of what we go through.... Thank you for the courage to share your story and feelings... It means a lot to know that someone else out there knows what it feels like... So true, it's important to take care of the health that remains in us, as opposed to wearing ourselves out when you know you're not getting anywhere, like you said.

How you talk about all the energy we spend on pretending is so accurate... So much of life it feels like now is a facade. When people ask how you are, you are almost programmed to say " I'm good or I'm okay..." Anything less than okay just isn't acceptable most times. I hate that I have to pretend but you're right, sometimes you just have to accept what cannot change and trust those few that you can talk to, and be happy of that.

And thank you also for your lovely analogy about the ocean. No words could be more perfect than that. Certainly pretending is very much like kicking unproductively in the water to try to maintain afloat.

Much of my time, like yours is spent pretending. But I have found one way as well to keep the anger down.... laugh more. It's hard to explain but sometimes just laughing about matters makes things better. For example, if someone says something stupid, like when I was on 20 meds/day and was exhausted, some kid who'd been up till 3 in the morning watching movies or finishing a late project said something like: I'm soooooo tired.." Of course, I could have been angry, and at that time I was. I mean obviously I knew a lot more about being tired than him... But this one teacher taught me a great trick about letting it not get to you... Laugh and do'nt say anythign at all.If anything think to yourself, jokingly... "he has no clue..." and let it go with that. Sometimes humor is the best thing. Because, whereas anger just tightens one's body and acts actually to hurt you by tensing up everything, laugher releases the tension, and though it may not stop the pain, it certainly makes the situation seem a heck of a lot brighter.

With great admiration for you as well,
Thanks for everything and keep in touch,
~ Matt

posted 01-11-2001 04:16 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sachet:
Uh, Matt, dear, NO ONE got the main point of the story, so you kind of messed up there by pointing out what was missing, didn't you?

---

Hey you! When are you going to answer any of my questions?
parsell

posted 01-11-2001 04:18 PM            

I actually thought I did get the point of the story: right before the monk's inevitable death, he saw the beauty that did exist in that tiny yellow flower, he saw that light was there amidst the darkness, and in doing so must have realized (or tried to teach us through his experience) that in spite of everything he was going through, there was still a light in the dark so to speak.... That even at his worst point, facing death, he could appreciate and be thankful for what vision he still did have... That was what I got out of it, and frankly it was a beautiful message.

posted 01-11-2001 04:24 PM            

I still stick by my previous interpretation. I would very much like to know what the supposed interpretation, the one that you feel is correct, is. I'd be very interested actually to hear it.... because I welcome others views.

The one thing to remember though is that for everyone, there is a unique and individual interpretation. That's the beauty of literature and stories and parables even after all..... People can read them, and read them , and read them, but one interpretation, though it might have been the original one as intended by the author, will never stand alone. Because as long as men and women read literature, it is always a subjective matter. People will find their own message hidden in a story, much like you saw the variety in all of our interpretations. That doesn't mean we're wrong... In fact, it's simply normal.

posted 01-11-2001 04:24 PM            

I have absolutely no idea who wrote it. It could have been almost any artist. But since we're on a PGL board, and it used at least one big word, my guess is Affleck.

As to the meaning (sorry, I can't go back for a reference since we're on the second page. I think that was your next question, wasn't it?), I'd say that the author's point was that "artists" (in any of the mentioned fields) don't create for any reason other than an intrinsic need to express their unique vision and experience of the world and of life in their medium of choice. Like many other activities and vocations, creating the art is its own reward.