posted 04-18-2001 08:54 AM            

Her: a college degree.
me: why?
Her: security
me; financial security?
her; yes...there's a lot of reasons.
me; just because you go to college doesn't mean you automatically have money
her; but it shows hard work. I want somebody who has put in the same amount of work as i have.
me; so you're saying i don't work hard (very angry)
her; that's not what i'm saying. I just don't want my kids to grow up like i did eating government cheese.
me; so what you're saying is, you want money
her; no.
me; he could have a degree from the steno type institute and you'd still be eating gov't cheese.
her; you don't understand...

posted 04-18-2001 08:58 AM            

Even when I was married my husband was "too depressed to work" so it was all on my shoulders.

posted 04-18-2001 09:04 AM            

i'm sorry to hear this...and this is certainly not indicative of the feelings of all women...

though just to play devil's advocate...a degree is a marketable commodity in getting ahead or even staying the status quo...

okay i'm going to stop because i am a huge proponent of higher education and don't want to tread on toes...

posted 04-18-2001 09:07 AM            

This woman is looking for someone to marry, with an eye to her future family's financial stability, but doesn't seem to care if he loves her or not. Forget her. Find someone who doesn't care about money, and who is interested in finding a man who will truly love her, meaning you.

posted 04-18-2001 09:10 AM            

I am not defending this girl because in a perfect world we would all love each other for who we are, not what we have. However, everyone has different priorities and hers might actually BE security and in her mind that comes from a college degree. She may come from a backround where a college degree means more than a piece of paper. So, she just may not be the right one for you because she's coming from a different place and wants different things.

Before I get really steamed at people I try and put myself in their shoes to see if I can understand why they feel the way they do. (This is a new thing for me and it's actually helping me to become a more understanding and compassionate person, to an extent).

All I'm saying here is that she may not be a superficial bitch and she may just be looking for an equal partner, not a provider.
I am NOT saying that you can't be a good provider or partner without a degree, lord knows you CAN, but maybe for her it's a symbol or something. Who knows.

As long as she doesn't make you feel worthless, maybe go a little easier on her. If she makes you feel bad about yourself though, like you're not good enough, then fuck her.

posted 04-18-2001 09:15 AM            

so i know what im talking about here all right.

I have a college degree and plan on going back to college. My ex boyfriend went to college for about a year and dropped out.

If a chick tells you she wants somebody with a degree, and I told my ex boyfriend he should try to go back to school. Then believe me nothing will change her mind.

does having a college degree me a great deal. To some it does. To my parents, who are both college educated it does. They want both me and my brother to attend.

If this girl thinks that having a college education is what it takes in order to have a sound job. Then im sorry to tell you this but she will never change her mind and it will be hopeless.

This is major so please dont think its not. When someone wants something and the other person doesnt, it spells trouble.

No matter what I told my ex, it didnt matter, he still did not want to go to college cause he thought it was pointless and it didnt matter.

Just because a person attends college doesnt mean they will not make alot of money. But people who have degrees have a hard time finding a decent job due to the water down factor, so someone without it will have a harder time.

This chick wants security. I personally think work ethic is a better judge of character..... but oh well.

and yes if i ever do get married, i do admit i would like for him to have a college education.

quote:

---

Originally posted by burger:
say a girl you really like says this, re: what she wants in a marraige partner....

Her: a college degree.
me: why?
Her: security
me; financial security?
her; yes...there's a lot of reasons.
me; just because you go to college doesn't mean you automatically have money
her; but it shows hard work. I want somebody who has put in the same amount of work as i have.
me; so you're saying i don't work hard (very angry)
her; that's not what i'm saying. I just don't want my kids to grow up like i did eating government cheese.
me; so what you're saying is, you want money
her; no.
me; he could have a degree from the steno type institute and you'd still be eating gov't cheese.
her; you don't understand...

It goes on like this for another hour or so. How superficial. Does having a degree mean anything other than you went to school to get it? See, i don't want a degree, i never have...even if i did it would be in some impractical major like Philosophy or archaelogy.

---

posted 04-18-2001 09:22 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by renee23:
Burger,

I am not defending this girl because in a perfect world we would all love each other for who we are, not what we have. However, everyone has different priorities and hers might actually BE security and in her mind that comes from a college degree. She may come from a backround where a college degree means more than a piece of paper. So, she just may not be the right one for you because she's coming from a different place and wants different things.

---

this makes sense to me...maybe because it is me...
i've never ever once considered not going to college...it is just what you do...i am a bit of a conformist...but generally i just like school...

plus...the men i've dated that did not go to school...had little to no ambition...or if they did have a "dream" they were doing nothing to further it.

higher education puts you around people that value that education and makes you value it in others. i think schooling shows preserverence and commitment. i don't think it makes you "smarter" per se but i do feel it provides a terrific opportunity for exposure to different ideas, cultures and influences.

posted 04-18-2001 09:38 AM            

Once he got his own office (at Universal?), he dropped out of college.

So, he used the college until he acheived his goal (making a film), and used the film to achieve a larger goal (starting a career).

When a woman says she wants security in a relationship, she probably means that she doesn't want a guy without goals, a guy with no plan for his future, no roadmap, and nothing to fall back on.

Don't blame her for that. You should want the same thing. Are you looking for a woman who doesn't know what to do with their life, or DOES know what to do, but isn't taking any steps in that direction? Of course not.

So....if your life plan doesn't include college, you should explain to her exactly why you will be a success (however YOU define that) without a college education. Then she can make a judgement whether or not you'll be able to offer the security she's looking for.

Note, security doesn't equal money. Donald Trump has money, but the women he dates probably don't have a feeling of security in their relationship.

Stop being such a guy.

posted 04-18-2001 09:43 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by psichick:
Ah. Here's the male dilemma. Women, who are not into dating just for fun or sex,

---

What? since when?

Here's my my 2 cents worth of shit:

Are [b]you looking for a long term commitment right now? Ask yourself this first. It's obvious the lady wants to settle down. No, I don't think she's superficial, just wants different things.

To me college means two things: ya got deep pockets, and ya got the patience to sit on ur ass while being lectured by an aristocratic bald headed sob.

I'm out, later

posted 04-18-2001 09:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by burger:
My work ethic was dictated by my father. who btw isn't a college graduate. Work as hard as you possibly can to support what you have to, hard work pays off.

Don't question my dedication or work ethic, and that's what i told her. I probably work twice as hard as any of those college boys. I don't see the difference in any of it other than the piece of paper at the end.

---

at no point was I questioning YOUR dedication or work ethic...just sharing my point of view and experience...which I tend to rarely do in this forum...and which I pry will not do again...

i understand most people don't agree with my views in this forum...but i also think i have been very open to many other views which are very different to my own...i only ask the same courtesy be extended to me.

posted 04-18-2001 09:55 AM            

being a woman, i am all for supporting myself & all of that, and also come from a family of people who didn't go to college. but, i would say it's easier to 'get ahead' if you have that paper, even if it's in philosophy or some other 'impractical' subject (like english, which is what everyone said to me, but i don't regret it for a minute.)

living in boston, it seems hard for people who don't have a degree, but you're in indiana right? maybe it's not the same.

now, this might sound crazy, but men that i know who reach their 30s and don't have a degree, seem to have a freakout. a) it's hard to get a profesisonal job (i.e., dough); b) it's hard to go back when you're in your 30s; c) it's long been my theory that men, more than women, identify w/ their jobs & have been raised (& women have been raised) to think of themselves as breadwinners, so at some point, they hit this wall & some hit it hard and some don't give a shit.

if you can see yourself doing what you want on your own terms w/o a paper, and oyu don't give a shit, then i say all the power to you.

posted 04-18-2001 10:01 AM            

You know what, to me...if you have love (which i've never had) fuck the money. Lay back and feed each other the government cheese. Luckily, despite what she seems to think, i'm VERY VERY VERY goal oriented.

posted 04-18-2001 10:06 AM            

Maybe it just goes with the territory of your choices in life.

posted 04-18-2001 10:11 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by burger:
My work ethic was dictated by my father. who btw isn't a college graduate. Work as hard as you possibly can to support what you have to, hard work pays off.

Don't question my dedication or work ethic, and that's what i told her. I probably work twice as hard as any of those college boys. I don't see the difference in any of it other than the piece of paper at the end.

---

Ah, but pick up that other piece of paper--the classifieds--and see just how many of those better paying jobs require that first piece of paper. Doesn't matter how hard you work--a degree opens a door, allows for advancement, sometimes gives you the only "in." Not knocking you, Burger--my husband doesn't have his degree, my love isn't contingent upon graduation from an accredited program. But his lack of a degree hurts him professionally, and we both know it. A degree isn't "just" a piece of paper--it's a piece of paper testifying that the person holding it has completed the coursework necessary to enable him/her to perform a job--to make him/her qualified. Beyond that, it's a testament to a person's having begun a course of study and stuck with it. I am NOT saying that someone who lacks a degree has no "stick-to-it-iveness." Far from it. Just saying that a degree lays evidence of that out in black and white.

I would never knock someone for not having a degree, nor would base my relationships upon that. But it does make a difference out there in the workforce. Often it makes a huge difference.

posted 04-18-2001 10:16 AM            

she is just doesnt want to get stuck. if a lawyer loses his job, chances are he can find another one.

if a kmart work loses his, ummmm well i dont need to explain where im going.

this chick wants security and that's how she feels . you cant change her mind......... if there was every a marrige. she would have to accept that fact and believe me anytime crappy happens the issue will resurface

quote:

---

Originally posted by molly49:
she might change her mind if you were making bank like speilburg though...

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posted 04-18-2001 10:21 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by critical_critic:

What? since when?

Here's my my 2 cents worth of shit:

Are [b]you looking for a long term commitment right now? Ask yourself this first. It's obvious the lady wants to settle down. No, I don't think she's superficial, just wants different things.

To me college means two things: ya got deep pockets, and ya got the patience to sit on ur ass while being lectured by an aristocratic bald headed sob.

I'm out, later

cc[/B]

---

cc - I am not looking for a long-term relationship, but that has nothing to do with burger's dilemma.

There ARE women who just want to have fun and date, or who just date for sex. There ARE women who don't like dating and putting up with the various hassles that go along with it, who date with an eye to finding a husband who would eventually be a good provider. These women are concerned with security. You can't really blame her, if she grew up poor. I can understand it.

cc - I never said the girl burger mentioned was superficial, but I did say that it sounded like she was less interested in finding someone who would love her than she was in finding someone who could/would provide her with a financial secure future. Many men have gone through this dilemma.

Did my statements not come across that way?

My point to burger was that this girl seems to have made up her mind about what she is looking for, and that he should move on if his plans do not meld with hers.

Was I wrong to say that?

posted 04-18-2001 10:25 AM            

i don't consider myself superficial...and would like to marry for love...

but i've put a lot of work in my education and if i don't marry someone that went to college then he sure as hell better be successful on his own...no mr. mom's for me...

scratch that...i will marry someone that went to college...

posted 04-18-2001 10:50 AM            

I have a college degree. This is what it has done for me lately. It has sat in it's picture frame on my mantle collecting dust. Now the truth be known that the two jobs I have had since college including my current position required a degree of some sort, so I would not have those positions if it were not for my degree, but I do not use my degree in Anthropology at all in my current position. I personally don't think it is important as a form of status.

posted 04-18-2001 11:02 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by burger:
see this is where you lose me.... To me, i have prefrences. I like shorter women, i like dark haired women...i'd like them to have money, and be educated....but if i love them it doesn't matter if they 7-2 and the worst possible education. I don't discriminate, and i think when she or anyone else says they won't marry unless they have a degree they ARE discriminating

---

okay i discriminate...in my dating pool...

friends on the other hand...no way...my two best friends have still not graduated from college and they both began the same semester as me...in fact...i think i will have graduated law school before one of them even completes their undergrad...they are both hard working girls that while realizing the importance of a degree put it in second gear and take their time while pursuing other things that matter to them...

posted 04-18-2001 11:36 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by molly49:
burg...to be honest...i'm tired of this conversation...she obviously isn't the girl for you...

---

posted 04-18-2001 11:43 AM            

You asked if it was superficial, and I don't think it is. Many people think that anything that isn't "true love" or unconditional love is superficial. I don't think it is.

I have a long history of relationships that don't work, which has made me examine more closely the relationships that do work. I've found that the relationships that do work can be generalized and steriotyped into two categories.

First: It works with work.
Second: Higher Power at work.

Most are the first. In fact, so many are the first that at one time I figured that "love" was really nothing more than a mutual biological attraction helped along by circumstance and a genetic need to breed.

This is how the first works: Two lonely people find they have much in common. They date, get to know eachother, eventually contract into a permanent relationship of some sort. The relationship has its ups and downs, and takes a LOT of work, a LOT of emotional and chronological investment.

For such a relationship, doesn't it make perfect sense for a woman to write down or list the qualities she sees as being important? Maybe her qualities seem ill defined- like "has a college degree," but that is just because she hasn't thought it through. Obviously, from the conversation, what she meant was "Stable and able to provide a consistant source of income, with a relatively respectable social standing, and some reasonable intellect." None of these things are bad.
Some may argue the "social standing" part is bad, but really- its part of life. If you're a doctor or a millionaire, you're gonna get a seat at a crowded restaurant before the lowly network technition. Social standing also helps out with the child rearing-- the best private schools and etc. do provide advantages.

The second sort of relationship is the one portrayed in fairy-tales and romantic movies. The two people are destined to be together, and everyone knows it. This sort of relationship is so rare, I spent most of my life thinking it didn't exist. But it does-- A good friend of mine and his wife met when they were 4 yrs old, and it is obvious to anyone who sees them together, they are soul-mates.

So here are the relevant questions:
1: How lonely are you and how long are you willing to wait to find your soul mate, if he/she exists for you? If you're not too impatient, then romance can just be fun, without any preasure. After all, when the "real thing" hits, it'll come out of the blue without you looking for it. But if you are lonely and desperate, its time to make a list.
2: If you need to be in a relationship, how much effort do you want to put into the relationship to make it work? How much sacrifice in other areas of your life are you willing to make in order to not be lonely, and to make a life with another person?

Most people get to the point where they are LOOKING for romance actively, which means they are seeking a relationship of the first type--they will work to make it work. And there is nothing wrong with that. Its the best most of us will do, and really, it ain't too bad if you find a good match.

posted 04-18-2001 11:44 AM            

That type of woman pisses me the fuck off.

Des

quote:

---

Originally posted by quetee:
oh forgot to mention. If she wants a college educated guy, she should educate herself too. Its called give and take. I hope she doesnt sit on her ass and try to dictate things and think ite peachy to sit at home eating chocolate.......... while her college educated husband goes out and works. If that is what she is looking for, then she has the problem.

NEXT..........

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posted 04-18-2001 12:56 PM            

You said "if you have love (which i've never had) fuck the money. Lay back and feed each other the government cheese."

If you've never had love, this is telling.

Maybe you SHOULD be a little more discriminating.

And...people who have had to eat government cheese and have moved beyond that...generally don't want to go BACK to eating government cheese just because "he really loves me."

So when a girlfriend says "I'd like a guy who can give me security", that's perfectly normal. Security doesn't mean a mansion or diamond rings, or vacations in the Bahamas each summer. (Well, it might to some...better ask.)

And as I before, if you've never had love, you may not be clued in on the whole relationship thing.