posted 04-18-2001 11:47 AM            

What if <wearing my director's hat> I came across a so-so script but saw a way to improve and hone the plot, characters, and concept in general? Let's say this would involve changing around A LOT--a total overhaul--but the gist would be rooted in the original. But I would need to commandeer total control over the story in order to realize the movie in the way I see best (I'm showing major BS auteur-director attitude here, but bear with me.)

BUT...what if the writer insists on staying aboard as a producer? What if I can't get the writer off the project so I can freely and clearly pursue the concept as I'd like?

What would my options be? Could I just write my own script from scratch knowing that the concept was sparked by an idea in another script? Would my story be original--and would I have to give any kind of credit to the original writer? How would this situation be fairly worked out?

posted 04-19-2001 10:42 PM            

In ethical dilemmas, what usually works for me is to try and flip it end to end: what would I want the other person to say/do to me?

In this case, though, you might want to decide what WGA and copywright laws are, also?

posted 04-19-2001 11:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chinle:
what happens when a director likes a mediocre script?

it's called *__________* (insert the name practically any movie you've seen lately)

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posted 04-19-2001 11:07 PM            

This is one of the things the WGA wants to change - currently, the writer isn't necessarily allowed to stick around and be a part of the process (rewrites, changes, etc.), unless he/she is working with a director who favors a more writer-driven production.

My feeling is, a professional experienced screenwriter would probably be more than happy to roll with a few changes - happy to even be included and considered for the rewriting job, glad some dingbat isn't ruining his fine work, interested in improving the final product. But, by this same token, he/she would be experienced enough to know when to say no more.

I mean, the story will probably get changed around some...ok, fine...but if the director is just some idiot who can't type or string a script of their own together, or has illusions of grandeur as the next David Lynch, or doesn't realize he/she is turning this into another "Dude, Where's My Car?" then....time to invite someone else in, cash your check and ask for your name to be removed from the credits.

And that's what sucks about being merely a screenwriter - seeing your fine work go up in smoke when some know-it-all comes along and has a "vision". LOL.

In my mind, very few writers would be on-board as producers...if they had that kind of pull, they'd probably skip the headaches and direct the thing themselves.

I think if you take the original story and rework it, the original writer should still be paid for the first script, the original idea. And you have to give credit, too, perhaps a "Story By" credit (unless they are so embarassed they ask you not to, in which case, you should ask someone you trust to evaluate the film and perhaps consider locking it in your safe deposit box, forever.)

Unless you completely revamp everything, and there's no sign whatsoever of the original storyline, meaning the original script would be irrelevant as I would probably have thrown everything out and started over completely - but would still give a big thank you to the original writer at the end credits.

posted 04-19-2001 11:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by b-man:

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posted 04-19-2001 11:32 PM            

Look at "Charlie's Angels." Every action cliche in the book was ripped off with flair and pizzazz (did I just use that word?) and the plot was as thin as a Saran Wrap condom. But the music was cool, the three stars looked great, the editing and fight sequences worked well and it was entertaining all around.

However, in the case of "The Mod Squad"...

posted 04-20-2001 11:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by b-man:
In all honesty, I think it depends on the director.

Look at "Charlie's Angels." Every action cliche in the book was ripped off with flair and pizzazz (did I just use that word?) and the plot was as thin as a Saran Wrap condom. But the music was cool, the three stars looked great, the editing and fight sequences worked well and it was entertaining all around.

However, in the case of "The Mod Squad"...

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did someone just say "plot"?

posted 04-20-2001 11:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by b-man:
With the potential strike, studios are cleaning out their inventory by releasing low brow, low budget films starring low rent celebs (Not gonna name names. Wouldn't want ya to "Just Shoot Me") to make a quick buck.

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Let me rework this statement:

posted 04-20-2001 11:23 AM            

I would first go to the writer and be honest with them.
Tell them exactly what you said here.
Hopefully you could work it out.
If not as long as you used your own words and was just inspired by the writer oh, well.
There is nothing new under the sun and all that has been done and said has been done and said before.
Follow your heart.
If it feels wrong, it is wrong.
When it doubt always follow what brings you peace of mind.
The very best to you!>>>>>>

posted 04-20-2001 07:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chinle:
what happens when a director likes a mediocre script?

it's called *__________* (insert the name practically any movie you've seen lately)

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posted 04-20-2001 08:40 PM            

why cant this person rewrite it to a way that satisfies everyone involved. it wont be the first time a script had an overhaul... sure wont be the last.

and another thing.... what makes you an expert.. how doyou know that your ideas are the best thing for the script.

If for example,
let's use back to the future.

you didnt like this script but you still have somebody go back to the future to fix things okay fine that's one thing.

but if you have this kid who can play an instrument really well but is considered a slacker with slacker parents and he goes back to the future in a car with his wisepot friend and he has to get his parents together again and the only way for him to get home is cause of an event like the lightining.... then you ripped it off and should come up with your own material.

posted 04-20-2001 09:00 PM            

Me direct someone elses script? I don't think so. Why would I do that when I've been working my ass off for a five months to get every tenuous contact possible to get a 1-st hand director or producer to read my own masterpiece. And by the way I have--for my own script, that is. Listen kids, at some point I would very much like to be in the enviable position of a director who is pitched--who wouldn't? Put yourself in those shoes and ask yourself what this WGA negotiation point would mean. I'm not taking sides, I'm just looking at multiple sides of the issue. And there were numerous good points about how writers who are professional will use their own instrincts as to when to be involved, and when to take the check and say sionara.

posted 04-20-2001 10:58 PM            

quote:

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For your great comfort you should no that (a) I never read past page 70 of your script; (b) if I had dinero (the green stuff$$) and (c) clout I would shamelessly and selfishly use it on my own material. Lordy, lordy...

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Lune, what are you talking about? On the one hand, you say that you never read past page 70 of Charmpri's script. This implies that you weren't enthralled by it. That implies that you do think it a "mediocre" script. Is that what you're saying?

On the other hand, you say that you would use it "on[?}" your own material. But only if you have clout. Sorry, I just don't follow you.

In terms of your question, we all get inspired by others art and experiences. I have no doubt Ringo Starr was totally unaware of the parallels between My Sweet Lord and He's So Fine by the Marvelettes (think that was it), when he wrote his tune. The influence and notes were in his subconscious. Or so I'm guessing. Unfortunately, they were too similarly in his subconscious and he lost a copyright lawsuit!

That's the purpose of copyright. You really should read the copyright laws since they have some very clear legal explanations of what "ripping someone off" means.

My advice to you is that if you're aware you're using someone else's work (unless you've optioned a source), then you're being not only unethical, but HIGHLY unethical, and probably even open yourself up to a copyright enfringement suit, assuming the work is copyrighted.

posted 04-21-2001 07:50 AM            

I remember another copyright suit where a guy did an original painting of an Indian that was "inspired" by a photograph of the same. (It looked almost identical).

He entered it in a contest and won. The photographer sued for copyright infringement and won since the artist's work was deemed derivative of the photograph. He was stripped of his contest win, too.

To restate what I said previously, if you're aware of another person's work and are consciously using for inspiration, then you're infringing on their copyright (even if they haven't registered it).

posted 04-21-2001 10:34 AM            

Why become so enthralled over someone who isn't appreciative...hell if a director said they wanted my script, willing to shoot it and re-write it and PAY me - go for it!

posted 04-21-2001 10:55 AM            

*****
No hard feelings on my part about the misunderstanding. I don't have the means nor ability to shaft anyone--even if I wanted to. (My only subversive doing of late has been sending Toqueville salt in Flintstones vitamin containers and Marlboroughs inside video tapes to Korea.) The topic was all about WGA, but I wanted to hit the issue indirectly--to simply present a scenario to consider, and get feedback from other aspiring writers: Basically what mandating writer involvement would mean if any of us went on to directing. Isn't a director buying the script--not necessarily buying the writer too?

But I see how strongly and passionately you feel about your work and this issue of how far should the writer be involved in the process. My script is now the strongest ever, and I would like to see it realized on celluloid largely "as written." But if I actually got an offer for an option or purchase, I know I'd likely let it go wholesale. Let the director take it to celluloid in the way they see fit. But all this is a hypothetical because I have a few direct leads, I have no agent, don't live in LA and have other fish to fry regarding living and making $$ the old-fashioned way.

But I'm glad you--and everyone else-- responded. Like Khourina said on the other thread--I too couldn't believe no one had anything to say on the subject when my original -0- reply post fell to page 6. Thanks for bringing it back to life.
***********

posted 04-21-2001 01:43 PM            

So whats all the huff and puffing in here.

Me, I'm easy. BUY RELENTLESS and you can change it to Yo Quiero Rlentless for all I care!

posted 04-22-2001 07:05 AM            

quote:

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What would my options be? Could I just write my own script from scratch knowing that the concept was sparked by an idea in another script? Would my story be original--and would I have to give any kind of credit to the original writer? How would this situation be fairly worked out?

Just a hypothetical ethics and procedure question.

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Lune, it looks to me like this discussion has gotten off track (unless that was actually me who did!)

You have two options in this scenario. In the first, you could buy the screenplay from the author, including its copyright, as is normally done. In this case you would own the story and could do anything your heart desired with it. I still believe you have to give the author some type of credit, but that would be specified in the contract, I believe. Sure the WGA has guidelines for this--at least for its signatories.

If you did not buy the screenplay, then, no, you could not write your own screenplay derived/inspired/based on (whatever) the original one without violating copyright law. That is, unless you were able to work out some sort of collaboration deal with the author amenable to you both. This is the question I've assumed you were asking, not whether you could pay to buy the screenplay and then change it.

To the extent you're thinking of Charmpri's script in this scenario (and I have no idea whether you are or not), he's told you he's not interested in a collaboration. You'd either then have to pay him for his screenplay or leave it alone--completely alone. Anything else would not only be unethical, it would be illegal.

posted 04-22-2001 03:03 PM            

Lune has discovered who Lune can work with and who Lune cannot work with, Me, I'm a directors dream; I write well and I'm not on an ego trip. Lune is going to buy my script and film it however Lune decides is best. Course I think filming off the coast of France is nice on a yacht. Me, I'll be vacationing on the money Lune pays me.

posted 04-22-2001 03:07 PM            

Without wishing to sound confrontational - Sachet's paragraphs about writing/re-writing scenarios sum up the position totally accurately. The original post on this thread does not mention money or an optioned script - it says can I write a new script inspired by another script retaining those elements I wish to retain without crediting/ paying the writer.

posted 04-22-2001 04:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Charmpri:
Pickel87

Without wishing to sound confrontational - Sachet's paragraphs about writing/re-writing scenarios sum up the position totally accurately. The original post on this thread does not mention money or an optioned script - it says can I write a new script inspired by another script retaining those elements I wish to retain without crediting/ paying the writer.

[This message has been edited by Charmpri (edited 04-22-2001).]

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CHARMPRI,

I KNOW. I WAS GOOFING AROUND. AND I ASSUMED YOU KNEW THAT BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKS SO IT DIDN'T SEEM WORTH A DEBATE.

SO LUNE,
YOU WANT 'RELENTLESS' PICK A NUMBER BETWEEN 1 AND 10. ANY NUMBER WILL DO.

posted 04-22-2001 04:47 PM            

Best wishes