posted 04-04-2001 05:12 PM            

First off I believe the author needs to seriously research religion before spouting off. Below are only a few things that bothered me and listed by page #... we’re not even going to go into incomplete sentences, formatting, descriptive paragraphs or dialogue a mile long.

Logline: A young boy's search to discover the meaning of life so as to uncover the keys to heaven.

Rewrite: Young boy searches to discover the meaning of life so as to uncover the keys to heaven.

2.
Pete states he’s seven going on eight.

Problem: By this age as a Catholic, Pete should already be attending Catechism classes and preparing for first Communion... yet he’s ignorant to what the word Faith is?

3.
PATRICK, 18, blondish brown curly hair and green eyes, holds MOLLY, six months old, in the front seat. Car seats have yet to be invented.

MARY, 17, auburn haired like her mother and Tommy's twin, sits behind the driver seat because she has learned the long hand of Margaret’s wrath cannot reach her in that seat.

Tommy reads Eddie the Bazooka Joe joke from his gum wrapper and the two laugh. In the back seat facing out, Pete and Seamus sit. Seamus holds electronic football in his hand and the electronic sound of electronic football players running reverberates throughout the car. WE GO TIGHT on PETE.

Problem: Car seats have not been invented yet? But electronic games have?

4.
PETE VO
My cousins’ families are similar to
mine. Except some of the dads are
cops. In my world, there’s Irish
Catholics, and then there’s everybody
else. The only part of this picture
that doesn’t fit for me is Jesus.
From what I’ve learned, and according
to my brother Seamus I’ve learned
shit, that’s why I’m in second grade,
but from what I’ve learned, Jesus is
not Irish Catholic. My dad says
that’s only a technicality, like Knute
Rockne, but, still, Jesus is not Irish
Catholic. He is Jewish. I don’t know
any Jewish people, they don’t go to
Holy Cross, but if I ever meet a
Jewish person, my mom says my job
would be to convert them to
Catholicism. So they could go to
heaven. I have decided this summer,
the summer of 1976, I will help a
Jewish person get to heaven. It will
be my holy quest.

Problem: As a Catholic myself... never were we taught that we HAD to convert non-Catholic’s... this is not a teaching of Christianity! The teaching is to spread the WORD! God’s word, and whether that person accepts it or not is up to them. You must have mistaken Catholic's for Jehovah witness?

17.
PETE
I’m good thanks. Ready to start my
quest. But I thought I might ask you
for your permission first.

RABBI
What are your plans?

PETE
Sort of a “lemonade-free trip to
heaven” stand.

The rabbi chuckles. He stops.

Problem: Here again we have Pete preparing to construct a “lemonade stand” to recruit Jewish to Catholicism in a way. This whole page of dialogue is very unbelievable. And then it continues onto pg.18:

18.
EXT. SYNAGOGUE- MINUTES LATER
The rabbi walks back to the door. He turns back to look at Pete taping the poster to the wall. FREE LEMONADE. FREE TRIP TO HEAVEN.

The rabbi laughs. He opens the door and heads into the synagogue. Pete takes a seat at his stand.

It is extremely hard to believe that a RABBI would allow such a thing at a synagogue! Even at churches things (dinners, lunches, sales, etc.) are done in a basement or a separate building.

38.
Then go ahead. Be like the Jews.
Have no more than two kids because
it’s not economical to have more.
Make every decision based on money.
Raise your kids to base their life on
the size of their wallet. Raise them
to worship the almighty dollar, not
God.

PATRICK
No, Dad, I shouldn’t raise my kids to
base their worth on the size of their
wallet when I can teach them to base
it on how much booze they can handle
without puking.

Joe gets up and cracks Patrick. The kids run to their mom.

JOE
You ungrateful, smartass prick. You
got all the answers at eighteen, don’t
you?

PATRICK
No, but maybe if I work a city fucking
job, I’ll have all the answers at
forty.

Joe cracks Patrick upside the head and knocks him over. The kids scream. Patrick gets up. He thinks about charging his dad, but decides to walk out of the kitchen and out of the house. The kids cry. Margaret shakes her head. Joe finishes his beer.

Problem: Here there’s stereotyping in a very NEGATIVE way and secondly up until now Joe is portrayed as an abusive father who does nothing but yell and smack the shit out of his kids!

47.
PETE
Since I’m Catholic, I don’t think I
have to. It’s just automatic.

DANNY
That’s cool.

PETE
Yeah. But you know what. For my
first communion next year, I have to
complete first communion training.

Problem: Here’s a statement to shock the WORLD! Where in the world does it state that if you’re Catholic it’s an auto admission through the pearly gates? A seven year old doesn’t just come up with an idea like that!

49.
EXT. OAK STREET BEACH- MINUTES LATER
The beach is pretty full. Lake Michigan’s waves crash weakly against the rocks. Gymnastic rings are set up at the north side of the beach along with an area filled with weights. Elevated five feet above the beach is a paved area for runners and bikers.

Problem: Here we have modern day equipment along the beach and yet car seats haven’t been invented? What century are we in?

51.
DANNY
I’m not a strong swimmer.

Pete looks out to Lake Michigan. A buoy signals the spot where the lifeguards don’t want you to swim past.

Problem: Danny is undergoing chemotherapy... he WILL NOT have the strength to swim in lake Michigan to the buoy and back... the kid WILL DROWN in the process even half way!!!

70.
JOE
On a quest for heaven? By disobeying
me, all you have done is put yourself
on the road to hell. Go to your room
and don’t come out ‘till I tell you
to.

Problem: Again, Joe is seen as an overlord who has to have total control of everyone’s lives. But far worse by making the statement of “on a road to hell” because he disobeyed... sounds like something taken from the movie “Carrie” and direct from her distorted mother’s lips!

87.
Pete doesn’t look back. He rides to the church, jumps off his bike, and runs into the church. The church is empty. Pete runs to the altar and grabs the communion chalice. He takes one, looks at it, and puts it in his pocket. He then takes another one just in case something happens to the first. He puts the second communion host in his other pocket. Father Kelly enters the altar from the hallway attached to the altar.

89.
FATHER
Go give your friend the host. May God
bless him. And you.

Very Big Problem: First off this story sounds more like your attempting to play it out like some... Eucharistic Miracle! Whether the Hosts are consecrated or not they are NOT left out in the open! They are stored under lock and key within the sanctuary of the Tabernacle.

The consecrated Host and the Precious Blood under the form of wine are given the adoration that is reserved for GOD alone, since they are indeed, Almighty God Himself. The highest form of veneration is known as latria.

This act is sacrilegious! And for a priest to allow is worse!

*** This will surely be one movie I will NOT be seeing and after reading up to page 89 I quit!

If you don’t like my comments hey... more power to you but this ain’t gonna fly!!!

posted 04-04-2001 06:50 PM            

Just wanted to let you know I finally have found the perfect title for your script,

'FOR PETE'S SAKE'

posted 04-04-2001 09:16 PM            

Car seats were around since 1970's and
if you had read Pete's s/p took place after that.

Annie you go girl - such wisdom.

posted 04-04-2001 09:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pickel87:
Cuantos,

Car seats were around since 1970's and
if you had read Pete's s/p took place after that.

Annie you go girl - such wisdom.

So glad you are my daughter. Ben will be so proud

---

posted 04-05-2001 06:11 AM            

Regarding "Car seats have not been invented yet? But electronic games have?

I was eleven in 1976 and my memories of that time tell me that Pete's depiction of car seats and electronic games is accurate.

CAR SEATS-Back in 1976 car seats were not mandatory so many family's did not use them.
In fact I remember holding my younger sister on my lap growing up. My memories were very similar to the scene you refer to in Stolen Summer (My parents didn't have as many kids though). Not until the early to mid-eighties did states inact legislation forcing the use of car seats for children or seatbelts for adults.

ELECTRONIC GAMES-In 1976 I was in sixth grade. In the sixth grade we took a bus trip to the football Hall of Fame in Canton, OH. What did we do to pass time during the bus ride? We played Coleco Electronic Football. It's not as advanced as the Gameboys of today it was more like "Pong". Instead of actual players a little red "Blip" was a player. It may not sound like fun compared to todays technology but at the time these handheld Electronic Football games were more popular than any toy currently on the market.

posted 04-06-2001 11:40 AM            

Pete states that seatbelts were not around yet electronic games were.... I know seat belts were around.

The main problem here is religion... if you're going to write about a specific religion make sure you research! Especially when it comes to something that is held sacred by the Pope and Catholic followers. Because of what and how its written shows ignorance to that religion.

You want to be controversial, but not to the point that everyone will hate you for crying out loud.

I myself would prefer that someone point out what doesn't work in my script than to smile, giggle and say oh yeah cool story. That doesn't help me as a writer.

Why did I say I'm ticked? It's because I am a devout Catholic okay and to use the Host in such a way turns me off. I rather you critcize my religion and call me names if that makes you feel better. But when you tread into unknown waters... beware.

So get a grip and pull up your pantyhose

posted 04-06-2001 02:45 PM            

I'm confused by your dis-likes. I thought you stated that you thought car seats were not around in the seventies; and now you state it's not that it's the religious aspect of the script specifically about the host. What is it in Pete's script about the "host" that you disapprove of as a Catholic? That a child would take it to give to his dying friend? I know of a Catholic church where there are several women that do take the "host" to dying, housebound etc. people everyday. How was Pete's script offensive to you as a Catholic I'm not sure, but for me when I read the script I wasn't offended by the religious implecations because I read it as a story about a little boy named Pete who had this belief because his father told him and so he went on a quest - -

it is told through the eyes of a child.

Sometimes children are a reflection of their parents!

posted 04-06-2001 03:19 PM            

I'm confused by your dis-likes. I thought you stated that you thought car seats were not around in the seventies; and now you state it's not that it's the religious aspect of the script specifically about the host.

A: The words were copied and pasted directly from his script.... he states that car seats were yet not invented and yet electronic games were. It's wrong. It contradicts itself. Read it below... from page 3:

3.
PATRICK, 18, blondish brown curly hair and green eyes, holds MOLLY, six months old, in the front seat. Car seats have yet to be invented.

MARY, 17, auburn haired like her mother and Tommy's twin, sits behind the driver seat because she has learned the long hand of Margaret’s wrath cannot reach her in that seat.

Tommy reads Eddie the Bazooka Joe joke from his gum wrapper and the two laugh. In the back seat facing out, Pete and Seamus sit. Seamus holds electronic football in his hand and the electronic sound of electronic football players running reverberates throughout the car. WE GO TIGHT on PETE.

What is it in Pete's script about the "host" that you disapprove of as a Catholic? That a child would take it to give to his dying friend?

A: Impossible... as the Host concecrated or not are kept under lock & key. Get it? Lock & key.

I know of a Catholic church where there are several women that do take the "host" to dying, housebound etc. people everyday.

A: This is true and those people attend a special class in order to do so.

How was Pete's script offensive to you as a Catholic I'm not sure, but for me when I read the script I wasn't offended by the religious implecations because I read it as a story about a little boy named Pete who had this belief because his father told him and so he went on a quest - -

it is told through the eyes of a child.

Sometimes children are a reflection of their parents!

A: True but to implicate that Jews can't go to heaven because it is what Catholics are taught is wrong! It is not part of the teaching and to implicate is a deadly error.

** Comments like that lead to racism and wars. It's bad enough that ALL Christians cannot see eye to eye. So why add wood to the fire? Unless that is your intention?

You may not think of it as such, but when it comes to religion the subject becomes a much more delicate piece. Especially when you're dealing with something that is highly revered as the Host is.

Like I said .... one thing is to be controversial, because not everyone believes in a higher power. But another is to change a religion and quote a teaching that doesn't exist... to suit your needs.

In order for the story to work... he'll have to find another way to get the Host to the child.

Don't get me wrong I'm happy Pete won... hope he does well, but there are important changes that need to be made if the movie is to be a success.

posted 04-06-2001 03:57 PM            

}{i Billy ,

posted 04-06-2001 03:59 PM            

Thank you for responding; Let me discuss this with you if I might -

first off people do NOT HAVE to go to special classes to be able to get the "host" to take to the ill, homebound or dying etc.

I would be willing to give you the name of the Catholic Church in Irvine, California where I have personal knowlege of this taking place. (women that I know - get the key from the Priest or Secretary at the church and get the "host" and take it to homebound etc. and never attended ANY SPECIAL CLASSES. - they see a need and they fill it)

I contend that perhaps churches are different in different areas and/or perhaps differences occur due to the Priest in charge of the church.

In reply to your assertion that Pete's script is defamatory against Catholic teaching that Jews can't get into heaven is false. Go back to the script and re-read - it is PETE'S FATHER who says that to HIS SON; not a Catholic teaching. It was his father and then around page 80 something again PETE'S FATHER TELLS PETE THE TRUTH THAT JEWS CAN GET INTO HEAVEN.

I think you might have taken it personally as a religious piece when in fact it is about a little boy who is told something and learns the truth in the end.

In no way is Pete using the host or Catholic teaching as a means to start a religious war.

Cuantos - do you have any children?
Children learn things from their parents and in this script - that is what we see happen. A child is told something and so he goes off on a quest to accomplish a goal. But what the child learns is the truth; that there are things in this life we have no control over and things happen to people we love and care about no matter what race or religion and this childs father learns to teach his child the TRUTH AND IN THE END THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS FAITH. That is the story. Not Catholic against Jew. Not a Jew can't get into heaven. Not let's exploit religious beliefs. (maybe it touched something emotional in you and I suggest that is a good thing too, however, let's keep to what the script is not personal emotional upheavals)

It is a story that Pete Jones wanted to write. It is HIS STORY.

I agree, Pete made some errors in his script, but overall it is the story that Ben, Matt, Harvey, Chris Moore and the executives of PGL loved.

Cuantos, since Harvey Winstein is Jewish - do you think he would have approved of a script for the first PGL if he was offended by the story or the fact that car seats were invented? I don't think so. Mr. Winstein has a track record of decision making with scripts that get Academy Award recognition and therefore I think Mr. Jones deserves a little more credit than for any of us to tell him hey - car seats were invented and no Catholic would take the "host" to someone that was dying when that simply is not true as I stated I have personal knowledge of that taking place. And I repectfully can see that you probably are basing your opinions on your own personal experiences yet; I hope you can be open enough to hear that perhaps you might be mistaken.

posted 04-06-2001 04:11 PM            

As for you Hoax... who knows what you're talking about as my name isn't Billy but thnx anyway.

quote:

---

Originally posted by HoaxedTotem:

}{i Billy ,

I see you got a new name . Was everybody starting to ignore you , were they ?
You poor thang you , when you gonna let it go ? This really is bad for your health to go on and on like this . I think you should seek some help little fella .

---

posted 04-06-2001 07:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pickel87:
cuantos,

then we agree? a meeting of the minds is a wonderful thing. Talk to ya later cuantos

---

Hell no Pickle... I wanna break out the colt... gloves maybe... who knows... possibly some mud slinging!

posted 04-07-2001 09:09 AM            

I don't know if this will help with the "technical" aspects of your discussion, but it is true that every preist and every church and every parish (at least in the United States) is, in some ways, very independent of Rome and the Pope and they do things their own way so what Pickel says is true -- some churches may NOT require special classes to handle the host.

My best friend when I was growing up was Catholic and her father was out every night screwing his brains out with a different woman. He finally deserted his family and filed for divorce.

My friend's mother was an extremely devout Catholic and would never have filed for divorce on her own no matter what the guy did. And she never would have agreed to the divorce, either.

But for one thing.

She loved her children. She wanted them to eat. She wanted to keep a roof over their heads. And she had never worked at any job, ever, in her entire lifetime. She was completely dependent upon the father for her children's sustenence.

Sustenence that he was threatening to immediately withdraw if she did not sign the divorce papers. So she signed.

This was 1960 and there were no advocacy groups like there are today and divorce was more complicated back then.

And this lady thought she was condemned to eternal hell for doing what she had to for her children and that she was ex-communicated from the Catholic church for getting the divorce.

But her priest continued to allow her to take communion and practice all the applicable sacraments.

And he was probably in violation of some papal Rome edict. But he did it anyway.

Just like a lot of priests and nuns got involved with counseling young girls on sex education and birth control contrary to what Rome had to say.

AND ONE MORE EXAMPLE FROM THE JEWISH SIDE OF THINGS:

The Torah scrolls that are opened and read from during Sabbath services are treated with great reverence. They are to be touched only for purposes of prayer.

And if the building they are in starts to burn down, one should make as much effort to save them as one would make to save a human life, although human life always takes precedence.

When I worked at a yeshiva for four Orthodox rabbis, I was given free and complete access to those Torah scrolls at any time because I was there constantly while the Rabbis were in and out.

And if the Torah scolls ever had to be rescued for any reason, it would most likely have been me that did the rescuing.

Besides, I also stored the siddurs (prayer books) in the same cabinet as the Torah scrolls and it was my job to clean up the shul (temple area) and put all the prayer books back after minyan (prayer service with at least ten men present).

Technically, I was not really supposed to have access to those Torah scrolls. But I did.

So a living religion has room for the practical realities of Life.

I agree though, that there has to be some other means for little Pete to find the Host and get one for his friend. Perhaps, the priest might have been preparing for services and Pete just "swiped" one? That's a kid thing to do, isn't it? And even though Pete is a good boy, he would do this thing for his friend.

(All of which is not to say that I personally care for the idea of a Jewish child being brought a communion wafer, but we are talking practical reality re: what little Pete can and cannot do in a dramatic sense as opposed to what any one religion has to say about anything.)

Anyway, I am sure that these technicalities will be dealt with.

I have also had some problems with Pete's script as it was in the contest, some technical/craft related, some dramatic elements related, but I never thought for one moment just because ANY first draft of ANY script might have problems that meant the script should never see the light of day as in being actually produced.

All criticisms and discussion are a good thing, not just for Pete, but for us all so we can all learn about this film making process.

Mindless slamming of someone else's work is not a good thing.

If we are all smart enough to know the difference, then we can keep that in mind when posting critiques and keep that in mind when responding to someone else's critique, especially if we did not agree with that person's comments.

And if anybody shows up here with drivel, we will just ignore it.

PEACE,
uhuru1701

posted 04-07-2001 10:06 AM            

i dont have a problem at all with others views. BUT i do have a problem with extremist. I tend not to get along with these people because I feel that anytime a person is so extreme, they only think their viewpoint is correct.

for example,
people who STILL think minorities are inferior, there is nothing you can tell this person. They have been taught this and will continue to pass it down.

or for this disussion, please who think that any violation of the church is a no no. Just because someone is extreme and follow the rules doesnt mean that everybody else does. There are catholics who get abortions.... what about these people. what about practice what you preach.

what about people like bush who dont believe in abortion BUT if their daughter got rapped they will consider it...........

Cuantos----

my point. just because you think its bad doesnt mean that others will think it is or that its not being done. unless you go survey all the people in the world and see if this would piss them off, then i suggest you go see another movie when its release. nobody is gonna make you see this one.

kind of reminds me of when the catholic church got pissed off when dogma was released. I found the whole thing funny. Sometimes people need to sit back and not take everything to seriously. That's our problem today..... and that's why the world will continue to have assholes....

posted 04-07-2001 12:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by HoaxedTotem:

}{i Billy ,

I see you got a new name . Was everybody starting to ignore you , were they ?
You poor thang you , when you gonna let it go ? This really is bad for your health to go on and on like this . I think you should seek some help little fella .

---

He doesn't even know what you're talking about, because this thread belongs to an entirely different contestant. With some very interesting criticisms of Pete's work.

posted 04-07-2001 12:52 PM            

I took that to mean you're ready for another round on the mat

The Catholic churches bend the rules depending on who is in charge of each particular church. Some churches light statutes and some don't; some have candels to light for prayers and some don't.

I disagree however about changing the swipe the "host". When I read the script I took it as a fatherly Priest (most of them are like that with their little congregations) who had a child in front of him trying to convince him that this was necessary for him to do this one time. Not every week, not once a month. Just this once and the Priest caved in. That's how it read for me. I didn't get upset that this somehow violated the Catholic churches rules and regulations nor was I inflamed that the child was being taught to SAVE a jewish boy because at the end of the script the father tells the boy the truth.

I looked at it from a child's perspective and I think that's what is missing. You all are reading into this script things that I don't think exist based on your own emotional stuff or upbringing and keep in mind this is not a documentary about the religion differences.

As far as Uhuru example of the church's acceptance of a divorced woman I also will state that according to the Bible the woman had a right and according to Catholic philosophy that her husband had an affair therefore she was free to divorce him as it is a sin in the Bible - sexual immorality.

Lot of assumptions go on about religions belief's thats why I liked this story when I first read it because I felt that it broke down those walls - the kid wanted to save his friend based upon what the kid had been told by his father early in the script. And around pages 80 something the father tells the kid something different. Go back and re-read it and you'll see.

This is the very thing that's wrong with religion, one person is told one thing about a Catholic and another thing about a Jewish person.

posted 04-07-2001 12:59 PM            

I'll tell you what the parents of the child that is cast in 'STOLEN SUMMER' a movie for MIRAMAX is gonna say, "HOT DOG" THE KID GOT THE PART YIPPIE" do everything the DIRECTOR TELLS YOU TO DO.

posted 04-07-2001 03:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pickel87:
billhays,

I'll tell you what the parents of the child that is cast in 'STOLEN SUMMER' a movie for MIRAMAX is gonna say, "HOT DOG" THE KID GOT THE PART YIPPIE" do everything the DIRECTOR TELLS YOU TO DO.

---

posted 04-07-2001 03:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pickel87:
billhays,

I'll tell you what the parents of the child that is cast in 'STOLEN SUMMER' a movie for MIRAMAX is gonna say, "HOT DOG" THE KID GOT THE PART YIPPIE" do everything the DIRECTOR TELLS YOU TO DO.

---

You may be right.

Not all Jews take the "Never Again!" proclamation as seriously as the zealots.

On the other hand, when "Dogma" came out, I have a picture of a man carrying a picket sign "Stop Blaspheming Our Catholic Faith!"

I have a feeling they aren't going to picket this movie. I have a feeling you may never know how much they disagree with the idea that a dead jewish boy needs to have a Catholic pray for him in order to get into heaven. You may pick up one or two editorials in Jewish publications, if they even bother.

posted 04-07-2001 04:40 PM            

Irv taught them all about the politics of confrontation and calling for boycotts and how to demonstrate and how to avoid getting arrested and he attended as many of their demonstrations as he was physically able to get to, all over the country.

Jerry Falwell LOVES Irv. Of course, he thinks Irv is going to hell for being Jewish, but he loves him all the same.

Irv and I have never been politically on the same side of the fence. The man helped found Young Republicans, for God's sake.

And I told him all that boycotting stuff smacked of censorship of Scorcese's artistic efforts, but what the hey... Irv has an extremely large soft spot in his heart for Christians.

Every single demonstration that JDL ever had for Soviet Jewry in the 1970's and 1980's, Irv insisted on carrying a BIG placard that read "FREE SOVIET CHRISTIANS." Irv was instrumental in organizing smuggling efforts to bring the CHRISTIAN BIBLE into the then Soviet Union where ALL religious instruction of children was forbidden. All Soviet citizens were commanded to be raised as athiests and when a person reached 19 years of age, they were permitted to study various religions as academic subjects.

Just thought I'd toss that little bit of trivia in there.

posted 04-08-2001 01:47 PM            

But anyway... I like what Uhuru says in regards to swiping the Host.

Now QT correct me if I'm wrong but you calling me names? Hmm now here I thought we were friends!

Anyway that's true rules & regs could be different everywhere... where I attend church they have to take a class in order to serve the ill. I myself assist the church as an usher and collector every Sunday.

Then again I grew up in Mexico with two.... not one belief. The first is the Indian custom and the Gods our ancestors believed in... and the second the one that my great great parents were converted to... Catholic. But either way... the mode of practice there to the church I attend here are almost the same in regards to handling of the Host and such.

To end it or not... I do hope that the project is a success... although it still remains very much not in my taste.

Now Dogma was a very different story... it mainly dealt with God was a woman. It was controversial. But still funny I borrowed it from a friend, saw it and tore it apart attemting to figure out why the church said it wasn't... but didn't and left it at that.

So Pickle we have to stop meeting like this.... people are gonna talk

posted 04-08-2001 04:00 PM            

So my roundabout point would be that Catholicism as it is practiced in Los Angeles or Bangladesh or Rome may actually "appear" on the surface to be three different religions. No, I'm not saying the basic tenets of the faith are different. Just its outward appearance, is all.

Just a thought. I mean, burning incense in Los Angeles isn't even anything strange, ya know?

posted 04-09-2001 04:32 PM            

At what point in my script did I write that Pete is speaking for all of Catholicism? Is it possible that some Catholics that set up missions to spread the word of Jesus are also ATTEMPTING to CONVERT NON-CATHOLICS? Is it not possible for an 8 year old to think that spreading the word and converting are one in the same?

Your argument about car seats versus electronic games is embarrassing. And after the point was made that you were wrong, you changed your argument from car seats to seat belts. I never said anything about seat belts not existing.

I don't understand your point about Joe being abusive. Does that type of father not exist? I wish that didn't exist but I'm writing reality, not Utopian fiction.

Weights and rings are considered modern day equipment? Muscle Beach and Johnny Weismuller existed way before 1976.

If you ever were an altar boy, you would know that unconsecrated hosts, which all hosts are until the priest blesses them during the mass, are in cabinets ready to be filled like oats on a farm. The priest had never consecrated the host so it is really not an issue.

Listen, I have no problem with critique or with you disliking my script. But there was a tone to your critique that said I am wrong and you are right. Do not pass your beliefs off as FACT. I believe that questions of belief are open for debate and that there is no correct answer, just varying degrees of opinion.

later

posted 04-09-2001 08:35 PM            

I never changed anything I said whatever... in other words whatever... oh yeah Joe's type does exist and I could can give you a very vivvid description - first hand.

Aha so there you have it... in cabinets.. like oats on a farm hmmm NOT sitting out in the open on the altar.

I am not passing beliefs off as a fact... but you are according to what I read. By they way I ran the story across a congregation and even they saw it strangely pieced together okay.

As for my tone it's normal I wasn't shouting... so get a grip.

posted 04-09-2001 08:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pete Jones:
... there was a tone to your critique that said I am wrong and you are right.

***Do not pass your beliefs off as FACT.***

I believe that questions of belief are open for debate and that there is no correct answer, just varying degrees of opinion.

later pete

---

Okay, I like that. I like that a lot.

However, one comment.

On some of these questions, there is a correct answer.

We don't know which answer is correct and which one is wrong, so we all feel entitled to share our opinions with others.

Taken to an unhealthy extreme, this becomes a compulsion to convert others to our beliefs. Or, even worse, to convert the children of, say, Jewish people by bribing them with Christmas presents and promises that God will let them into heaven.

In the Jewish religion, the promised fate is pretty much a long, long time in Sheol and/or a tomb. So a lot of Jews feel their children are vulnerable. Who wants to spend eternity in silence and darkness? Certainly not a young child? So Christian beliefs are very attractive to Jewish children - ie, Jews for Jesus. I think that the modern interfaith movement was founded on the mutual promises that adults can exchange information and learn about each other, but there should be no attempt at influencing each other's children's beliefs.

Heck, Pete, you know more about this that I do. Why am I even talking? Tell us how it went in Chicago. Did you find the next Marlon Brando or not?

posted 04-10-2001 08:40 AM            

My little brother could be a terror and earned himself a few swats in the Boy's V.P. office one day at the Junior High School in the 1960's (this is the Los Angeles area).

So...the V.P. tells my brother to bend over to get his swats. My brother bends over and with the first swat, blood starts GUSHING out of his nose and mouth and my brother started screaming. Then the Boy's V.P. starts screaming.

The school panicked and were certain that my Mother would sue the living hell out of them and were beside themselves apologizing.

My Mother handled it in very calm fashion. Then she tells my brother, "That wasn't very nice, Craig, to scare those people like that. Why didn't you tell them you can't bend over like that?"

You see, my brother knew he had this "condition" with his sinuses or whatever that caused blood to flow whenever his head was bent over. He knew he would gush blood. And he let the V.P. think it was all his fault.

Heh.

posted 04-10-2001 09:55 PM            

wished I'd have thought of it before, but
hopefully Pete will get a kick out of it.

'FOR PETE'S SAKE'
by
Pete Jones

posted 04-11-2001 11:41 AM            

Destruction of a persons work with arguments that have no basis in truth are another thing entirely.

I have a four year old little girl. She constantly questions things such as death and divorce and god. She honestly does, and she is four. She also loves Elmo and Rugrats but in the same moment she can ask me a question like "What will happen if you go to heaven mommy?" "Does God still love you even when you are bad". She has opinions. She likes certain clothes. She loves books and she loves learning.

I think you are really short changing a nine year old by thinking that they cannot question the realities of their religion or the confines or "steps to heaven". Kids can and will in fact investigate their surroundings especially in a Catholic or Jewish faith where religion is such a central piece to what is family.

My point is if the only real flaws you can find are kids who investigate religion and lack of car seats then you should really critique yourself as a reviewer. Because a nine year old can and does think about these things and car seats were not "law" in the early 70's.

You are not talking about Pete's writing or his script on the whole. You are getting pissed off about small pieces of the script that really don't change the overall message of the movie.

My grade for your reviewing skills---D minus on a quetee scale.

posted 04-11-2001 04:36 PM            

Fade In:
Quetee wanders into the whiner’s anonymous thread for her daily dose of Sour grapes Chitchat. She scrolls down and a message posted by Spie catches her attention.

Quetee
(Imitating Keanu Reeves)
Whoa!!. Now remember Dudette, you have to get permission to use the Quetee grade scale. I have it copyrighted.

Billy hays
Don’t you mean a patent? Here is a link. http://www.gotpatents.com

Pickel
Are you sure you’re not some reincarnated lawyer from the 18th century.

Bill hays
I don’t believe in reincarnation but for those who do here is a link http://www.reincarnationdoesntexiststupidpeople.com

Quetee
Stupid ass. Get a clue.

Billy hays
I never played that game.

Pickel
Not the board game Bill. Quetee just gave you the bird.

Bill hays
Oh I love birds. Here is a link http://www.birdlovers.com

Quetee/Pickel/anybody with common sense
Oh god.

posted 04-11-2001 04:40 PM            

I can't write I'm laughing so hard. That is the FUNNIEST THING I HAVE READ IN A LONG TIME.
I do hope you are writing a script quetee. My gosh you are funny. And so insightful.

And the links are so helpful too

posted 04-11-2001 05:03 PM            

St Elizabeth Ann Seton,
Irvine, California

you can walk into the chruch between the hours of 8 to 5pm everyday of the week.

you can sit, you can kneel, you can stand, you can lay on your face if you want to and spend time with GOD. Your God, their God, or just pretend ...nobody is gonna ask you.

You won't find candels to light in this church you will need to go to the church in Santa Ana (you can find it in the yellow pages,very old, very beautiful with old woods) and light candels and say a prayer.

You won't find a crucifix in the Catholic churches in Yorba Linda, but if you go to Anaheim Hills Catholic Church the Priest is Father Semus and you can look at the crucifix there; no candels though, but that church is usually open as well if you want to sit and pray, lay down, kneel etc.

If you go to Elizabeth Ann Seton and you are a member and known there you can get the "infamous key" from the secretary without having had classes and go get a "host" from the Eucharist that is in the chapel which is connnected to the church and take it to a homebound, sick, dying, or eat it on your way out the door if no one sees you I suppose. And yep on certain days the "host" is out on the pulpit for display as in that particular church they have certain days of the month that you can spend prayer time devoted to the Lord.

If, however, you go to the Catholic Church in Granada Hills, the Priest must accompany you to get the "host" and they have them locked up inside of a closet in the back of the church down the hallway from the Priests dressing room and the little hosts are by the hundreds inside of a very large plastic bag. Did you know the Priests have their favorite special robes too - some like the old traditional with lace and everything on them and others like plain white ones. Little facts one can get if one RESEARCHES WRITERS!

I'm sure from the information that I have gathered regarding the different Catholic churches that EACH one is run differently - all for different reasons.

I think billhays made a statement that no Catholic would wear a (oh please help me I think it's called a yamaka - the little hat)
Well bill hays I had a very dear friend who died at the age of 28 years old and guess what - all the men wore those inside the church as we walked in they handed them out to every male; they did not ask the Catholics if they were Catholic. My friend was Jewish and they had a Jewish funeral.